[AndyR]

I agree with you - those are established problems that don't need to be wirebrushed (but I certainly wouldn't say that they've been damaged).  But would you seriously try and clean new problems up in glenmacnass with a toothbrush?

[Adam Lincoln]

all those schist boulders being developed in scotland.

No need to be nasty.
 


I'm surprised we've not heard from Lincolnmaster-A on this one, i seem to remember some cocktalk threads about wirebrushing where you had some imput ages ago, whats your position on this subject? cheers.

Well, i cant say ive been following this thread that much, as i come here to get away from the banter of cocktalk. But as it happens ive just tunned in ;-)

Not sure what you mean Dave? Dont seem to recall being in a banter about this topic before.

But for what its worth, on the brushing stuff, i have to admit ive never used anything more than a suede brush... But only as i see fit. More recently though, with the damage ive seen being done to the rock, ive not even used one of these. If people see you brushing, then one thing leads to another and people start to get out the wire brushes.

You can beat a good old cordless mi15 brush. Awesome on the plastic and does the job on the grit....

[Bubba]

But would you seriously try and clean new problems up in glenmacnass with a toothbrush?

That's the other extreme though,  and there's plenty of in-between. You can get very stiff brushes which do a great job of cleaning but where the bristles aren't so hard they actually tear into the surface of the rock.

That's the only problem,  wire = harder than rock.

[AndyR]

I disagree, look at the sloper on the Fin,

Jesus, don't mention the war :wink:

[Bubba]

I disagree, look at the sloper on the Fin,

Jesus, don't mention the war :wink:

Now now boys, calm down - that subject has been done to death and I don't want to go through it all again on here. Use PM if you wanna get back into that one please.

[AndyR]

and I don't want to go through it all again on here.

Don't worry, I really don't want to start another pseudo CT thread on here - back to work.......

[Dave Flanagan]

But would you seriously try and clean new problems up in glenmacnass with a toothbrush?

That's the other extreme though,  and there's plenty of in-between. You can get very stiff brushes which do a great job of cleaning but where the bristles aren't so hard they actually tear into the surface of the rock.

Bubba is right, I shall try and clean stuff there with a plastic washing up brush (at least once to see how feasible it is) .

[The Dead Coat]

Bubba is right, I shall try and clean stuff there with a plastic washing up brush (at least once to see how feasible it is) .


What happens if you cannot clean a problem with a stiff non-wire brush. Is that it, is it destined not to be a problem?

[Dave Flanagan]

What happens if you cannot clean a problem with a stiff non-wire brush. Is that it, is it destined not to be a problem?

Maybe one could leave it for someone who could?

[Bubba]

If it comes down to a choice between cleaning or damaging the rock, then climb it dirty, or leave it alone. I can't ever see the situation where an alternative brush couldn't be found. Yeah, you might have to brush it for a bit longer, but that never killed anyone, did it?

[Dave Flanagan]

What happens if you cannot clean a problem with a stiff non-wire brush. Is that it, is it destined not to be a problem?

Maybe one could leave it for someone who could?

Sorry I was unclear, what I meant to say was Maybe one could leave it for someone who could climb it in its dirty state (or for that matter someone who could clean it without a WB)?

[AndyR]

Maybe one could leave it for someone who could climb it in its dirty state (or for that matter someone who could clean it without a WB)?

But what would the bouldering community actually gain from that course of events?

I really am not persuaded that the occasional use of a wire brush to clean new problems on certain rock types is any form of problem whatsoever.  I obviously have far too much spare time on my hands even bothering to think about it in the first place.........

[Bubba]

But what would the bouldering community actually gain from that course of events?

Leaving the rock intact - it would eventually clean up anyway.

I really am not persuaded that the occasional use of a wire brush to clean new problems on certain rock types is any form of problem whatsoever.

Now we're going round in circles.....I (and several others on here no doubt) am confident that I can use a WB carefully enough not to do any damage....but since it sends out a certain message to others who might have less of an idea what they're doing, I'm quite happy to do it a different way, and I don't use one any more.

[jonP]

Now we're getting a bit silly.  Given the choice between a dirty problem & a clean problem I'd choose the clean problem every time, as I suspect everyone would.  I don't care if it's cleaned with a plastic brush, a wire brush, or by a dog licking the rock for twenty four hours.  Once it's clean there's no need for further harsh brushing (with a wire brush, suede brush or stiff nylon brush), so there's no question of damage to the rock.

[dave]

Once it's clean there's no need for further harsh brushing (with a wire brush, suede brush or stiff nylon brush), so there's no question of damage to the rock.

I think you've missed the point, thats not the issue here (no one would argue with your above statement). This issues is as i posted above:

You might not think you're doing any damage when you're wirebrushing, indeed you probably won't be doing any physical damage, but the damage is done second or third hand by contributing to wirebrush culture.

You might not care wether a problem was cleaned by wirebrush or not, but when some impressionable beginner turns up at your local crag and ruins all the holds with a wirebrush (thinking that is the done thing) you will care.

[Bubba]

Now we're getting a bit silly.  Given the choice between a dirty problem & a clean problem I'd choose the clean problem every time, as I suspect everyone would.  

Yeah I know, but we're getting on to answers to hypothetical questions here. I think Dave's point that it sends out a message to other, perhaps very inexperienced people that it's ok to use wire brushes is a valid one. I know this all sounds a bit pompous  - "we know how to use brushes, but the masses don't" sort of thing. I dunno.

Anyway, I do quite like the idea of the 24 hour dog.

[AndyR]

Anyway, I do quite like the idea of the 24 hour dog.

Right, that's it - I'm off to the local animal sanctuary to get myself a dog for cleaning new problems.

Would I be cheating if I get a cat that has a rough tongue??

Yours,
Intrigued of Dublin

[Bubba]

Don't even think about using a cat you rock fucker !!!

[dave]

I know this is probably bollocks, but if you had a right gnarly bit of lichen to shirt, could you for example sponge the area down with a mild herbicide, wait a while then scrape/brush it all off with a brubbing brush, then rinse the boulder down with water, making sure you didn't get any chemicals on the ground/grass/plants etc?

[AndyR]

Don't even think about using a cat you rock fucker !!!

OK, OK, I know I've pushed it a bit too far.

I'll need quite a small dog to tape it to the end of the pole for reaching those high holds.

[dave]

I'll need quite a small dog to tape it to the end of the pole for reaching those high holds.

Why do you need tape? a dog has a perfectly good in-situ pole connection unit.

[jonP]

Think of the example you'll be setting - in a couple of years time the Plantation will be full of little dogs tied to poles, licking the rock.  Is that what you want bouldering to become?  Imagine slapping for the jug on Not to be Taken Away only to find that it's occupied by a discarded puppy.

[Johnny Brown]

Gosh, isn't it all like Cocktalk!

Especially since in your excitement you all have forgotten the answer which was discussed on the brush thread a while back - wood-bristled brushes!

"Stronger then lichen, softer than rock"

Anyone remember yet?
Usually sold as 'vegetable brushes' - presumably for scrubbin yer dirty taters - don't ask me I'm a carnivore.

And yes, Andy R, they work on Granite too, tho' you might have to put a little more time in...
... to your training, so you don't find the need to enlarge holds!! :wink:

[AndyR]

Why do you need tape? a dog has a perfectly good in-situ pole connection unit.

I'll need a wider pole then, especially after I've stret..... Oh wait a minute, wrong website.

[Big Frank]

Think of the example you'll be setting - in a couple of years time the Plantation will be full of little dogs tied to poles, licking the rock.  Is that what you want bouldering to become?  Imagine slapping for the jug on Not to be Taken Away only to find that it's occupied by a discarded puppy.

Perhaps the problems name and grade could be engraved onto it's dog tag, just think a puppy placed at the top of every problem. (along with a small pile of shit).