8. No glueing or hold stabilisation.
How could they be enforced?
5. Do not drop litter at the crag, and take home any that you find.
I doubt that blow torching does any damage.
Quote from: "yorkshiregrit"I doubt that blow torching does any damage. I saw a post on another forum about this, and some smarty-pants came out with the science that showed that it would damage the rock - something to do with the rapid expansion of the water molecules within the rock or something.
Here Simons 10 commandments1. No chipping whatsoever. 2. No blow torching, even at coastal venues. 3. No wire brushing. Use a nylon brush if you are cleaning a new line. 4. Use less chalk and brush/ wash away tick marks or excessive build up at the end of your session. 5. Do not drop litter at the crag, and take home any that you find. 6. Do not leave carpet patches at the crag.7. No use of resin (pof). 8. No glueing or hold stabilisation. 9. Use a bouldering pad to decrease the impact on the vegetation at the base of popular problems. 10. No gardening of indigenous vegetation.
Yeah, there's a lot of horseshit bandied about by people about the dangers of using blow torches. These tend to stem from their overuse on certain rock types - for example, the types of Carboniferous limestone in the peak and yorks (and pen trywn, dinbren etc) contain a high calcium carbonate content - this does decompose on strong heating to form calcium oxide and CO2 - that's how you make cement basically - and this did use to happen where persistent seepages were blow torched - eventually this will lead to degradation of the matrix and crumbling of the rock.There is also a problem where the rocks contain a lot of clay minerals in the matrix - i.e. gritstone, as these swell/shrink markedly with varying water contents.If a blowtorch is used just to dry off surface humidity then there is no reason why it should alter the rock significantly - it's no worse than using a hair dryer - the problem comes when they're used on the wrong types of rock and used to actually heat up the rock itself - this can cause problems.
Part of the problem obviously is that people don't know what are the "right" rock types to use a blow torch.I heard there was a hold lost in Portrane recently?
Several problems on the Wavelength hillside were recently damaged by wirebrushing. I'm dismayed at the short sighted arrogance and ignorance displayed by the YG and Andy Robinson. If you two think that indigenous vegetation doesn't matter or that a bouldering pad is just there to protect you then you are deluded. So, YG and Andy I urge you to tread lightly for all our sakes.Simon.
I'm dismayed at the short sighted arrogance and ignorance displayed by the YG and Andy Robinson.
Okay, so if you think that my 10 rules don't help at all, what do you suggest?What interests me is how agencies with power (like the CCW, the National Trust, National Park Authorities) percieve bouldering culture. I think we need to be careful how we present ourselves.Simon.
Given the damaage thats been done to existing problems, and problems with great bit orange mark all overthem it is really worth it just to save half an hours brushing with a stiff scrubbing brush?
indeed you probably won't be doing any physical damage, but the damage is done second or third hand by contributing to wirebrush culture.
Quote from: "dave"indeed you probably won't be doing any physical damage, but the damage is done second or third hand by contributing to wirebrush culture. Yes, you have a good point there Dave.
However, and I have to use the situation here in Ireland as an example, we (bit cheeky that as I'm english... - consider it the royal we!) have mostly granite bouldering, and a lot of this is untouched - so if I want to go out and develop a new boulder or problem, I have to use a wire brush to get loose weathered crystals off the surface and remove lichen etc - otherwise the problem will just be too dirty to climb.I can't 'harm' the rock, as the constituent minerals are too hard to be scratched by a wire brush
all those schist boulders being developed in scotland.
Quote from: "AndyR"all those schist boulders being developed in scotland.No need to be nasty. I'm surprised we've not heard from Lincolnmaster-A on this one, i seem to remember some cocktalk threads about wirebrushing where you had some imput ages ago, whats your position on this subject? cheers.
But would you seriously try and clean new problems up in glenmacnass with a toothbrush?
I disagree, look at the sloper on the Fin,
Quote from: "Glen Dale"I disagree, look at the sloper on the Fin, Jesus, don't mention the war :wink:
and I don't want to go through it all again on here.
Quote from: "AndyR"But would you seriously try and clean new problems up in glenmacnass with a toothbrush?That's the other extreme though, and there's plenty of in-between. You can get very stiff brushes which do a great job of cleaning but where the bristles aren't so hard they actually tear into the surface of the rock.
What happens if you cannot clean a problem with a stiff non-wire brush. Is that it, is it destined not to be a problem?
Quote from: "The Dead Coat"What happens if you cannot clean a problem with a stiff non-wire brush. Is that it, is it destined not to be a problem?Maybe one could leave it for someone who could?
Maybe one could leave it for someone who could climb it in its dirty state (or for that matter someone who could clean it without a WB)?
But what would the bouldering community actually gain from that course of events?
I really am not persuaded that the occasional use of a wire brush to clean new problems on certain rock types is any form of problem whatsoever.
Once it's clean there's no need for further harsh brushing (with a wire brush, suede brush or stiff nylon brush), so there's no question of damage to the rock.
You might not think you're doing any damage when you're wirebrushing, indeed you probably won't be doing any physical damage, but the damage is done second or third hand by contributing to wirebrush culture.
Now we're getting a bit silly. Given the choice between a dirty problem & a clean problem I'd choose the clean problem every time, as I suspect everyone would.
Anyway, I do quite like the idea of the 24 hour dog.
Don't even think about using a cat you rock fucker !!!
I'll need quite a small dog to tape it to the end of the pole for reaching those high holds.
Why do you need tape? a dog has a perfectly good in-situ pole connection unit.
Think of the example you'll be setting - in a couple of years time the Plantation will be full of little dogs tied to poles, licking the rock. Is that what you want bouldering to become? Imagine slapping for the jug on Not to be Taken Away only to find that it's occupied by a discarded puppy.
- wood-bristled brushes!"Stronger then lichen, softer than rock"Anyone remember yet?Usually sold as 'vegetable brushes' - presumably for scrubbin yer dirty taters - don't ask me I'm a carnivore.