[Houdini]

Any you hard training nerve-wreckin' peeps know anything about Neural Tension Rehabilitation?


I crucified a nerve in right side of my neck a year ago on Little Miss Dumpster Truck (great name, huh?) up in the Pass & I've been suffering from pins and needles in the right arm for all of that time.  Originally it was just a small zone of numbness on the index finger but it has gradually spread to my forearm and occasionally the bicep.  It's most disconcerting.

I've exercises to perform to release the tension but they just ain't making it.

If anyone of you pro-crips have spazzed themselves in this way before and have any advice to offer please do.  I could have hacked the fucking hand off this morning & felt all the better for it.

[Bonjoy]

My good lady Fiona suffers the same after a nasty jaring fall off Dolphin Belly Slap last year. Massage and the workout given by the physio seem to help, but the problem is recurrent. If she finds a magic bullet i'll let you know

[soapy]

have you tried the acupuncture houdi?

[Houdini]

I haven't but I know a needler in 'beris.  I'll try anything now.  I bit my finger this morning to see how much it hurt.  It didn't hurt...  Great for right hooks.  Not so good for chicken choking...

You had any relief from being punctured? 

[soapy]

no, no i haven't, the mere hint of needles or blood and i fai........




...which was why i suggested you do it instead   

[Houdini]

I've no fear of needles: I enjoy giving blood and I like to watch the needle as it goes in.

Seen a few morphine-heads bang up in me time...

[Dr T]

don't like to be a bearer of bad news but from what I've heard pins and needles and numbness are signs of pretty perminant nerve damage
I've had an op' on a herniated disc which f##ked my sciatic nerve but I've not got pins and needles or numbness just crucifying pain 
this apparently is a good thing as nerve pain will go (eventually - 3 1/2 months in and counting) but the pins and needles/numbness are perminant- so says my physio and surgeon...

[Houdini]

Herr Doktor T will you just fook orf reet nooo!   



Ah well, c'est la vie...   

If it ain't the neck its the back if it ain't the back it's the knee if it ain't the knee it's me butt-bone.  Fuck it, I ain't plannin' to live forever.

Glory or spastication?   Er... Tails?

[runt]

wotcha h

The pins and needles thing brings back orrid memories, I had the same and numbness in my forearm for over a year. Had some inferential (sp?) which seemed to help a bit, but not loads, ended up seeing a NHS nerve bod, who hooked me up and zapped everything. No huge difference after that effort either, but eventually it's sorted itself out, just leaving me with a puny(ish) arm. On the plus side pretty much back where I was before strength wise, I think it's just one of those time things.....

Good luck with it

[jfw]

don't like to be a bearer of bad news but from what I've heard pins and needles and numbness are signs of pretty perminant nerve damage

um totally unrelated injury (or not really injury) - but i was so hard up when i went skiing that i bought my boots for a fiver from a car boot sale - the understandably shoddy sizing of which resulted in numb sections of feet - this numbness lasted so long i was bricking it, that i was going to have numb tootsies for ever - but yay verily sensation did return after a few months!! (needless to say theres a lesson that's been learnt along the lines of false economy) - thats just a word of hope about sensation returning.

[Houdini]

During my Thai travels last/this year I'd have 3 hours of quite brutal Thai massage a week.  A 6€ a go - why not?  It got me through climbing daily - and crucially I had nowhere near as many issues with this nerve.

Back in the Reich massages are 60€ an hour and I just can't afford it.  The exercises work partially, but I just can't do them enough to release the tension fully.  I'm up for needles, mind.

Thanks all.

(Bonjoy - just to compare notes - what excercises was Fiona advised to perform?  Here are mine:

1 - Stand-up with good posture.  Push R-shoulder down.  Rotate R-hand left until it is facing away from body.  Raise arm by 45°.   Stretch neck L by 45°.

2 - Lie on R-side on floor propping head up with hand (elbow away from you).

3 - Biggles.   Make with the Biggles finger/goggles look.  Press elbows back.

All work - yet their effect is somewhat temporary.)

[soapy]

you tried doing regular iyengar?

[Houdini]

No.  Occassional Pilates.

[Bonjoy]

 Will quiz her and get back to you.

[Houdini]

Awwww (sheds tear).  You very nice man.

[Bonjoy]

[Blunk]

I just ran across this topic and would like to throw in my bit as an acupuncturist who has treated many cervical nerve issues. First Houdini, have you gotten a proper diagnosis, most likely including an MRI scan? Finding exactly where the nerve is damaged is an essential first step. If it turns out you have a cervical disc protrusion impinging the nerve then acupuncture is not, IMO, a good therapy. Surgery would be better, much as we all dislike it. Well, maybe you wouldn't mind it seeing your fascination with blood draws...  

Anyway, if you've not had it properly diagnosed I urge you to see a neuro specialist soonest. You don't want further damage to the tissue of the nerve.

PM me if you want--

[The Sausage]

Hi houdini. I'm a physio and agree totally with mr acupuncturist. however, i think surgery is a looooong way down the line at the moment. You need to get it checked out properly, but you're not going to get an mri, and i don't think you need one. but i'll try to give you some advice so you have a bit more knowledge.
Can you answer these questions:

how old are you? do you have any other medical history/problems?

What was the exact mechanism of injury? (did you fall on your head? whiplash type? did you do it straining like mad?) what position was your head in/did it end up in?

Describe your symptoms and how they developed. include pain at the time of injury, swelling, numbness etc...

what did you do? how long before you went to see a physio? what EXACTLY did they do/look at? what did they get you to do? how many times did you see them? was there any change to your symptoms? have they checked that you are doing your exercises properly?

Do you have any of the following?
dizziness/double vision
persistent headaches
impaired speech/swallowing I'd like to think not, but you have to ask...

what about weakness (not "i can't climb 8a any more" type weaknes...)
Do these tests. in all of them you are trying to resist a movement. use your good side to try to "push" your affected side in the positions described below. do for 5 seconds. you should be able to resist the movements.

1) interlock your fingers. squeeze your fingers together. is your affected side as strong as your good side?
2) point your affected side index finger straight out in front of you (as in "i'm talking to you, buddy"). try to push the finger downwards. resist!
3) put your affected hand out in front of you, palm down. try to bend your wrist down by pushing on the back of your hand.
4) is the muscle bulk at the base of your thumb the same size on both sides?

If any of these tests are positive, you have weakness caused by nerve compression/inflammation. unfortunately we don't know if that was the case at the time of injury, so we don't know if it progressing. but at least we know. hopefully they'll all be fine.
It does sound like you have (what we call) progressive neurological symptoms (i.e. the worsening pins and needles/numbness). this is not something to be sniffed at.
My advice: either (if you can afford it) go to a decent (i.e. recommended) physio. or go to your GP, but do it SOON. if you go to your GP emphasize that your symptoms are worsening. tell him it's effecting your sleep (but don't allow him to prescribe you sleeping tablets!) don't be fobbed off with a prescriptoin of anti-inflammatories. Get him to refer you to a physiotherapist. ask him to put "senior physio/neck specialist" on the referral. He should do this. why? because it's getting worse and it's affecting your life. be assertive.

a few other points:
if you don't do your exercises (or do them badly) your physio can't know whether their "diagnosis" is right. your response to your exercises provided vital diagnostic information.
physiotherapy takes time. it is a process of elimination. you will have had abnormal physiology before the injury, and you will certainly have some now (from altered movement patterns, mis/dis-use, muscle imbalance, pain inhibition, nerve involvement...) it takes time to work out which are to blame
Remember, how ever often you do your exercises, you spend more time not doing them than doing them. therefore, to get a new movement pattern to become "normal" takes time, repitition, focus, patience...

what happens when your car breaks? you spend money on it. however, we are loathe to spend any money on fixing our bodies, yet thet are infinitely more complex and valuable. it may cost you.
i hope this helps a bit. don't despair, with time and effort (and a decent physio) you'll be back.

[Houdini]

Thank you Sausage.

I flashed all your tests with the exception of the pointing finger test.  The hard foam boreal grip tester thingy is getting creamed in the left hand 24/7.  But dead weak in the right.  So thats two out of four.  When do I get the crip chair?

But seriously, have you ever tried seeing a doctor?  I tried 2 wks back only to be told to come back in 3 wks!  I guess hitting the internet access at FatDocs' practise would get the best results!

[fatdoc]

OK........ ALL my usual *this is not de facto medical advice but mearly guidance to seek appropriate medical treatment* waivers apply:

you need that MRI mate, preferably with the consult of a neck neurological surgeon and and prior that a neurologist.

end of the day..... it's  a significant neurological impairment that is progressing seconadary to trauma. I too practise acupunture - musculoskelatal basesd inc. dry needling of trigger points etc.. i use some chinese influence; but not much--- doubt it will be effective, and i'd want a neck cause excluded first.

I havent done any orthopaedics for a good while - but this sounds like cervical disc protrusion / osteopyhte nerve compression - you've got lateral musculocutaneous nerve of the forearm and median nerve sensory nerve deficit, C4.5. or 6 level most likely.....it's getting worse mate.

the advice above is sound - go get a medical consultation - this is your GP to start with. It is not an A&E job.

[Houdini]

Wow!  I had no idea my cripitude would keep you so busy for so long!  I'm really digging FatDocs' use of C4 - 6 etc..

I especially like the use of lateral musculocutaneous.  Fantastic!  I look forward to striding (my legs are fine thank you... OK, the left knee is shot... Shut-up!) into my Docs' practice and telling her exactly what my problem is in perfect neuro-medicalese. 

Cheers peeps.  I look forward to injuring myself again and offering you first call on diagnosis in the future.

[Houdini]

And the winner is....    FatDoc.

It's official: osteopath diagnosed C6 cervical disc protrusion.    Right, off to tell a pack of lies to my Doc about irregular sleep patterns and inability to work and I'll be taking my mace just in case the fucker tries to palm me off on another osteo and not a neurologist.  Hmmm... tell you the results of the MRI in 7 to 9 months unless of course another crip dies and opens a window for me.

[The Sausage]

good work all round. hope you get it fully sorted and back out there...

[fatdoc]

ahemmm....

that  i'll be some karma for me then!!! - joke  -