UKBouldering.com

Neglected masterpieces (Read 163205 times)

Houdini

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 6497
  • Karma: +233/-38
  • Heil Mary
#200 Re: Neglected masterpieces
January 16, 2008, 10:17:49 am
Elementarteilchen / Atomised, German.




The cast is strong: Franka Potenta - you probaly all know by now.  Moritz Bleibtreu - he's a fucking great actor (both he & Potenta starred in Lola Rennt [Run Lola Run]).  Christian Ulmen is sort of Germany's Louis Theroux, but twisted.   He had a show on MTV / VIVA forget which,  regardless - he's a funny and rebellious wit. 

OK, you can tell I like this film.  At first I thought it was a mistake that it was made by a German crew but really it makes no odds at all as the cast are such big talents in the Reich.  I haven't read Atomised.

Jaspersharpe

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • 1B punter
  • Posts: 12344
  • Karma: +600/-20
  • Allez Oleeeve!
#201 Re: Neglected masterpieces
January 16, 2008, 10:20:14 am
Atomised is much, much better in my opinion but that might be because I read it first and saw a lot of the same themes (and obviously the same writing style) repeated in Platform. I'll still read anything he's written, his books are never a chore.

Jaspersharpe

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • 1B punter
  • Posts: 12344
  • Karma: +600/-20
  • Allez Oleeeve!
#202 Re: Neglected masterpieces
January 16, 2008, 10:23:56 am

OK, you can tell I like this film..................  I haven't read Atomised.

Hmmm. I'm still unsure as to whether or not I'll hate it just because I love the book. Suppose I should just stop whingeing and watch it.

Johnny Brown

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 11442
  • Karma: +693/-22
#203 Re: Neglected masterpieces
January 16, 2008, 06:17:28 pm
This week listening to lots of Eno:


andy popp

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 5541
  • Karma: +347/-5
#204 Re: Neglected masterpieces
January 16, 2008, 09:04:40 pm
Its so long since I heard 'Here Come the Warm Jets' I have no idea what its like. Great title anyway. The Fante is only 6.99 at Amazon.

Houdini

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 6497
  • Karma: +233/-38
  • Heil Mary
#205 Re: Neglected masterpieces
January 16, 2008, 09:07:29 pm
The Fante is only 6.99 at Amazon.

Buy it.  Ask the dusk (1/4 of the Fante compendium is 8 pounds alone).

andy popp

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 5541
  • Karma: +347/-5
#206 Re: Neglected masterpieces
January 16, 2008, 09:08:59 pm
I have.

Houdini

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 6497
  • Karma: +233/-38
  • Heil Mary
#207 Re: Neglected masterpieces
January 16, 2008, 09:11:12 pm
You won't regret it.  Books 1 & 2 will slay you.

Jaspersharpe

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • 1B punter
  • Posts: 12344
  • Karma: +600/-20
  • Allez Oleeeve!
#208 Re: Neglected masterpieces
January 17, 2008, 07:35:51 am
That's where I ordered it from £7.50 inc postage. I love Amazon.

SA Chris

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 29257
  • Karma: +632/-11
    • http://groups.msn.com/ChrisClix
#209 Re: Neglected masterpieces
January 17, 2008, 08:32:10 am
I love Amazon.
I don't. While they may have a good selection their apparent price always goes up when their silly postage charges get added in. Worth checking prices here before buying from them http://www.find-book.co.uk/

Jaspersharpe

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • 1B punter
  • Posts: 12344
  • Karma: +600/-20
  • Allez Oleeeve!
#210 Re: Neglected masterpieces
January 17, 2008, 08:42:38 am
Granted you have to factor it in but if you check different sellers you can still generally find everythig cheaper. I use that site but it doesn't take into account the fact that Amazon don't just sell stuff themselves. Plus you can often get free postage on Amazon if you're buying a few things.

Anyway this is all.  :off:

Nibile

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 7997
  • Karma: +743/-4
  • Part Animal Part Machine
    • TOTOLORE
#211 Re: Neglected masterpieces
January 17, 2008, 02:19:17 pm
anyone here loved this gem like i did?

Houdini

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 6497
  • Karma: +233/-38
  • Heil Mary
#212 Re: Neglected masterpieces
January 17, 2008, 07:47:31 pm
I fear the work of Gustave Dore has fallen from the general eye . . .



Andromeda.


« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 08:04:08 pm by Houdini, Reason: no hotlinking bastard »

Houdini

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 6497
  • Karma: +233/-38
  • Heil Mary
#213 Re: Neglected masterpieces
January 17, 2008, 08:13:14 pm
Better than Burton & Olivier.   There will only ever be one Klaus Kinski.

 

butters

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Natural Born Punter
  • Posts: 1590
  • Karma: +56/-2
  • Everything's a grade harder hauling these 'burns!!
    • blog of butters
#214 Re: Neglected masterpieces
January 18, 2008, 06:39:28 am

What do people reckon to Michel Houellebecq? I read this a while back and thought it was absolutely brilliant...

His other stuff has left me thinking that maybe he's a bit of one trick pony (Lanzarote, Whatever) but I've not read The Possibility of an Island yet.


Atomised is certainly the best of the bunch - I think that he is potentially a great writer but he just gets too nihilistic in his later books and it is all frankly rather depressing and you feel that he is wasting his talent.

Solzhenitsyn's One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovitch deserves a mention I think.

bluebrad

butters

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Natural Born Punter
  • Posts: 1590
  • Karma: +56/-2
  • Everything's a grade harder hauling these 'burns!!
    • blog of butters
#215 Re: Neglected masterpieces
January 18, 2008, 06:43:29 am
This week listening to lots of Eno:




Was thinking about this album the other day as it touches on a lot of the minimalist stuff that I am listening to at the minute and realised that I don't own this on CD - will have to rectify this come payday!

bluebrad

Houdini

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 6497
  • Karma: +233/-38
  • Heil Mary
#216 Re: Neglected masterpieces
January 19, 2008, 04:54:54 pm
So, at last I've procured Schuberts' Winterreise - Roman Trekel Baritone, Ulrich Eisenlohr, Piano.   It's certainly not as arresting as Guerreleider; but they are such radically different works - I doubt it ever could.  Specifically, I find the piano work poor and does not connect in the way that other morose works have (for example - some Debussy, Eric Satie et al; though these are hardly Schubert's peers).

Though certain passages do grab you -

Mein Herz ist wie estorben,
Kalt starrt ihr Bild darin:
Schmiltz je das Herz mir wieder,
Fließt auch ihr Bild dahin.


Mind, I do like the ending very much -

Wunderlicher Alter,
Soll ich mich dir gehn?
Willst zu meinen Liedern
Deine Leier drehen?





Houdini

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 6497
  • Karma: +233/-38
  • Heil Mary
#217 Re: Neglected masterpieces
January 19, 2008, 06:41:42 pm
Being specific - Aguirre - Wrath of God Herzog 1972



If you have the time, this comment by a German fan is illuminating.  Kinski was a Titan.


Respect. Significance. To be remembered. Everybody wants it. Even artists who originally were content to just make great movies get the serious bug and want respectability. They want to be part of history. Witness Scorsese over the past decade. In reality films that are significant rarely are done with such intent, and are even less likely to be recognized as such at the time.

Aguirre the wrath of god is such an example. Its creator, Werner Herzog, wanted nothing more than to make his third fictional feature film about the title character with his favorite actor Klaus Kinski. But he went through every obstacle imaginable. He had to steal the camera, deal with a hurricane, run barefoot across rocky ground, and deal with the madman that is Kinski himself. Not to mention that most of the audio was savaged and had to be completely redubbed. And when it finally came out, it was trashed in Germany. Every critic hated it. Then, a weird thing happened. In America, the critics were hailing it. It became a proto midnight movie. Like many of Herzog’s own favorite movies “it didn’t change world cinema, but it was well made”. In the broad scheme, it was not important.

Or was it? Near the end of the decade it was made, movie called Apocalypse Now came out. Directed by now known auteur Coppola, it was heavily influenced by Aguirre. In not only themes and mood, but also the fact that there are two “visual quotations” in the film: the first is a ship stuck in a tree, and the second is man struck by a spear (in Aguirre it was an arrow). Apocalypse Now has been called one of the most significant films of all time, and many filmmakers have admitted to it influencing them. But what about influencing the influencers? What does that say about Aguirre? Is it significant?

Perhaps a closer look is warranted. We all know of the work Herzog pushed himself through to make it, but what of the film? First, like few other films (Carpenter’s The Thing) it is a bizarre mix of genres and ideas. Because it was made on a shoestring budget in and shot in Brazil, it feels like third world cinema or a documentary. Other times, due to its minimalist story and vivid imagery, it comes off as expressionist or surrealist. With the historical interpretation of the conquistadors, it matches eyes with soviet history films. Also note, it has a body count high enough for a horror or action film. But because it deals with one man’s struggle, it can be seen as a tropical drama or even western, a man exploring new territory. And finally, because of its visual potency, bare minimum of words and moody soundtrack (courtesy of Popol Vuh), it seems like a new silent film. Maybe this is why Americans loved the film, this country does seem to adore eccentrics. And this is undoubtedly why the German population did not get it.

For that matter ,what was going on in Germany? At the time of Aguirre, it had entered a New Wave of cinema(called by the same name),a movement at least equal to the French Wave. But like most waves, disparate and sometimes even contrasting artist are lumped together. In reality Herzog had little in common with Wim Wenders (in themes) and both were like martians to Rainer Werner Fassbinder(who was probably the purest New German Wave-er, hence his death ended it). And yet all were doing something, they were making films. Real films. German cinema had suffered a massive crater with the Nazi’s and the works of Riefenstahl. Their lineage was broken. For all of the fifties, Germany’s output was mostly poor erotic television plays. The gap between pre and post-war needed to be bridged. And Aguirre was that movie. Even including all of the above about Aguirre, it succeeded where others failed because of Klaus Kinski(a pre WWII German youth). Kinski was a widely admired man, and displayed an aura of someone who was born before the horrors that ravaged Germany. He was one of the few bright spots in the post-war German cinema. But it took Herzog, a man who spent his youth in the aftermath of the Nazis and Riefenstahl, to not only bring out the best in Kinski(and himself) but to make a film that gave relevance to the identity of Germany(which Herzog alternately loved and despised) cinematically. Because of him, filmmakers in America felt there was new cinematic language to be done (The Godfather, Taxi Driver), which influenced a new generation of German filmmakers to do the same(Run Lola Run, Goodbye Lenin). If Coppola and Scorsese are the fathers of modern cinema in Europe, then Herzog is the cantankerous but still active grandfather. And Aguirre helped make him such an influence. Now that's significance.


« Last Edit: January 19, 2008, 07:05:59 pm by Houdini, Reason: change pic no h7linx etc.. »

Duma

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 5773
  • Karma: +229/-4
#218 Re: Neglected masterpieces
January 19, 2008, 06:49:47 pm
seconded - aguirre is certainly in my top three films (along with Apocolypse Now).

GCW

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • No longer a
  • Posts: 8172
  • Karma: +364/-38
#219 Re: Neglected masterpieces
January 19, 2008, 08:57:27 pm
On a slightly different note, a fat beardy dude in a frilly shirt.  But, what a tune, and so well played.  (If you play guitar you'll know it's a difficult piece)


Houdini

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 6497
  • Karma: +233/-38
  • Heil Mary
#220 Re: Neglected masterpieces
January 19, 2008, 09:39:58 pm
In a similar vein,

(not a masterpiece but worth viewing)


GCW

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • No longer a
  • Posts: 8172
  • Karma: +364/-38
#221 Re: Neglected masterpieces
January 19, 2008, 09:52:38 pm
Nice find Houd.  Wouldn't he be better playing drums in Def Leppard though?

Houdini

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 6497
  • Karma: +233/-38
  • Heil Mary
#222 Re: Neglected masterpieces
January 19, 2008, 09:55:45 pm
 ;D  Always  though the DL guy shoud've moved to harmonica/jews harp etc..

I recall this guy played for the Pope one time though if he was granted safe passage into Heaven I cannot say.

Houdini

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 6497
  • Karma: +233/-38
  • Heil Mary
#223 Re: Neglected masterpieces
January 20, 2008, 10:19:08 am
  (turn it up, kick that rooster!)

Criminally neglected by the youth of today.


andy popp

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 5541
  • Karma: +347/-5
#224 Re: Neglected masterpieces
January 21, 2008, 04:31:15 pm
So, at last I've procured Schuberts' Winterreise - Roman Trekel Baritone, Ulrich Eisenlohr, Piano.   It's certainly not as arresting as Guerreleider; but they are such radically different works - I doubt it ever could.  Specifically, I find the piano work poor and does not connect in the way that other morose works have (for example - some Debussy, Eric Satie et al; though these are hardly Schubert's peers).

Shame that didn't quite live up to my hype. I find it not so much morose as chilling, particularly on the final two songs Die Nebensonnen and Der Leiermann

Next I'll thow in Beethoven's Quartet No. 15 Op. 132 (one of the so-called late quartets) esp. the third movement.

Change of tack, just got hold of The Individualism of Gil Evans by Gil Evans, best known for working with Miles Davis. Brilliant cineamatic kind of orchestral jazz - especially The Barbara Song which basically spends its entire ten minutes ending very gradually and Las Vegas Tango big brooding blues.

Finally, here's a Davy Graham taster

ps love the live Jolene

 

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal