[Karl]

Firstly, would rawl bolts be required and if so where can i aqquire these from, also the actual metal piece that you clip the quickdraw into, again where are these available from?

What drill would be best suited to the job, any other tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Karl.

[Houdini]

I'm gonna pipe up here and suggest that if you don't know it already, you shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a drill nevermind a crag.

[Houdini]

That came out wrong.

Ask Bonjoy, he knows about the correct size rawl plugs.  A seven I think.  And your ream-shealth.  Gotta keep 'em clean.

[Bonjoy]

 Has to be stainless. If using standard expansion bolts you need to ask for 'through' bolts 10mm x 100mm minimum. You'll need to get them from a fixing specialist, B&Q won't have them. Hangers can be bought from some climbing shops (Hitch and Hike, Inglesport etc) or from a supplier such as Lyon Equipment, again only get stainless, make sure the hole size is correct for the bolt i.e. 10mm or 12mm.
 Use a battery hammer drill, minimum 24volts, Hilti te6a is a very good drill. Use masonary bits, same diameter as bolt. Make sure you overdrill holes so that bolts can be hammered flush in future.

[Houdini]

Make sure you overdrill holes so that bolts can be hammered flush in future.

So great a tip.  And avoid those 1-piece Petzl bolt/hanger units.  They have a central spigot/wedge which you hit to expand the bolt.  Maybe these are fine @ work but they suck on rock.  Have you used these, Bonjoy?

[tubbs]

Whilst sounding a little harsh, I think Houdini has a point in his first post!

You have a choice of mechanical fixings (aka expansion bolts/through bolts) or glue-in fixings.

Mechanical fixings have advantages, most important of which is that they require a smaller initial investment - all you need is drill. Also, once they are placed they can be used immediately - useful on overhanging crags.

Glue-in fixings are harder to place and need extra kit. However, they are likely to last longer, can be lowered from without damaging your rope, they are easier to pull on (as if...). They are also more suitable for coastal locations.

Search on the internet - IIRC there's a site called tradgirl that has some information, and the American Safe Climbing Association has a site with some interesting information on it.

However, don't start drilling until you know what you're doing.

Where are you based?

[Karl]

Firstly, cheers for all the advice.

Tubbs: I'm based in Barnsley, the crag I'm interested in is at Wentbridge, it's about 8 metres high and already has some really old bolts. To begin with, I'm gonna replace the old bolts that are already in place.

Houdini : Cheers for the advice to contact Bonjoy, and Bonjoy thank you for replying with relevent details!


What i was wanting to know is what gear is best really, i know how to drill masonry. So the issue of actually being able to drill isn't a major one, knowing where to drill and what drill to use and fixings is.

So yeah, cheers.

Ps. Bonjoy, I'll probably be PM'ing you for more information about this!

[tc]

Can the routes be climbed without bolts?

[Bonjoy]

Glue-in fixings are harder to place and need extra kit. However, they are likely to last longer, can be lowered from without damaging your rope, they are easier to pull on (as if...). They are also more suitable for coastal locations.

 Have been thinking about the expansions v glue-in thing with regard to re-equiping in the peak. Whilst I agree that glue-ins are better for re-equiping generally, I think they are a bad idea for belays if used without a maillon/crabs. Over time people lowering on the bolts leads to a groove wearing into the eye, eventually this reaches a critical point (i've seen this on several routes) and a replacement is required. This might happen in say ten years, the bolts on the route are fine but the belay is knacked. While you can hammer an expansion flat removing a glue-in means sawing off the eye flush with the rock, which is more effort than most people are going to go to. In time you are going to end up with lots of redundant glue-ins at very messy belays.

[Houdini]

This is why stealing maillons etc.. is bad egg.  Selfish.

[tubbs]

Glue-in fixings are harder to place and need extra kit. However, they are likely to last longer, can be lowered from without damaging your rope, they are easier to pull on (as if...). They are also more suitable for coastal locations.

 ... In time you are going to end up with lots of redundant glue-ins at very messy belays.

I've removed a few - simply drill down the side of each leg with an 8mm bit, tap them a few times with a hammer and hey presto! Agree about the attachment of a ring though. It should be easy enough to get 10mm stainless rings made up which could be help "captive " by the belay bolts, or use some form of captive screwgate, but that starts getting expensive.

[Bonjoy]

Good knowledge. I imagine you need a fairly long bit for that.

[Paz]

Is this one of Mo's bouldering crags?  Far be it for me to recommend one ethical travesty over another but 8m high sounds ideal headpointing/ high ball height, and it's cheaper.

[Dude]

Firstly, cheers for all the advice.

Tubbs: I'm based in Barnsley, the crag I'm interested in is at Wentbridge, it's about 8 metres high and already has some really old bolts. To begin with, I'm gonna replace the old bolts that are already in place.

What type of bolt are the old ones, how are you planning on removing them? Are you simply chopping?

[tc]

Is this one of Mo's bouldering crags?  Far be it for me to recommend one ethical travesty over another but 8m high sounds ideal headpointing/ high ball height, and it's cheaper.

That's what I was thinking, now I'm an obsessive maniac.

[Bonjoy]

 The place Mo developed is Sprotborough, about 15/20 miles south

[Paz]

They're quite useful venues then as when we were going to Yorkshire from the south east we'd go past there where the weather would usually be fine (after having been past Roche Abbey and Craig David where it was usually glorious) only to find it was piss wet at Almscliff/Caley/ Ilkely etc.

[sasscotty]

Is this one of Mo's bouldering crags?  Far be it for me to recommend one ethical travesty over another but 8m high sounds ideal headpointing/ high ball height, and it's cheaper.

No its in wentbridge nobody climbs there apart from me and Karl and some other guy. There is a highball bouldering bit, then you come to higher bit which we want to bolt and there's a slightly overhanging part right on the end which is meant to be full a hard stuff like v7 up wards.

Scotty.

[Bonjoy]

Any chance of some photos?

[Karl]

Yeah sure chaps, i'll get some pictures tonight.

Also, i was thinking of just simply un-doing the bolts to remove them and replace them with new ones!

Ta.

[Bonjoy]

 You could do that if they are wedge anchor type bolts. However it is a bad idea because the sleave remaining in the rock may be rusted and you have no way of knowing. Even if the sleave is ok, at some point the outer bit is going to be fine and the inner bit knackered. This would be a very dangerous state of affairs because from the outside the bolt will appear new and sound, when infact the unit is unsafe.
 I'd highly reccomend you read this article http://www.safeclimbing.com/education/bomberbolts.htm and some of the others on that site, to get a bit of background on the technical issues.