[dave]

like it says.

was fearing that everything would be wet, but the steep face on cottage rock as dry enought to get warmed up - good venue, a bit like kyloe-in. those pine problems were OK too, the middle on nice, and the left one surprisingly hard given the passive fottledge plinth!

then went up to ousal, passing bizarre on the way 9was piss wet but looks doable. we all tried the low traverse but damp holds were hindering it at the end. did find an amazingly comfy pebble mono though.

then bailed over to wrights - this place is really really good, kinda reminded be of back bowden. that fingers start is brown. simple simon thing - whats the vibe on this. do you head stright op on slopey flatties to the igh break then shuffle left to the curve, or head out diagonally left from the start on those slanty holds?

scouse sussed a bo sequence on the undercut problem that negated the use of the undercut - much to my relief. and whats the bean on that problem right of that?

the full traverse there is good, seemd like just on hard move crossinga slopier pod thing towards the end. i liked the sit-down rest anall.

all in all a good venue, will certainly go back and shit. can't believe its taken this long for us to go.

[r-man]

Great place eh. We went over the winter - Wright's was absolutely freezin, mats were being blown away, but it's definitely somewhere I want to go back to.

What was the cunning on the undercuts problem?

Problem to the right works with a high heel in the big hole, then lock off and reach for the sloper. Is that the one you mean, or is there another in between?

[cofe]

What was the cunning on the undercuts problem?

don't use the undercut.

[r-man]

What was the cunning on the undercuts problem?

don't use the undercut.

Cunning.

[Richie Crouch]

I went not long back and did the Undercut using the undercut but didn't think to sans undercut!

I thought the rock was terrific apart from the fact it shredded my fingertips to pieces 

Definitely need to go back to finish Simple Simon and that slopers problem to the right end of Wrights rock, skipping the barndooring crack.

[dave]

quick churnet update:

how absolutely fan fucking tastic is the High Speed Imp Act problem? Its totally kubrick, well brown. How the shitting crikey is this not in the graded list? Rupert, let me get out the red biro .....

[BenF]

Good to see people finally seeing the light at the end of the Churnet.  Have people been trying Mick Adam's problems?  He added finishes to the Undercut problem and the one to the right of it (as well as other stuff).

Whilst we're at it, it's also worth big upping "the crack" on the right of Wrights Rock and Fingers (just right of Simple Simon).  Both are well wicked. 

The curving flake right again of Fingers is great too, although I have yet to get to the top break.  Really cool sequence using heel/toe action and plenty of potential knee damage. 

[dave]

The curving flake right again of Fingers is great too, although I have yet to get to the top break.  Really cool sequence using heel/toe action and plenty of potential knee damage. 

I thought the curving flake thing is on fingers, hence the scouse photo above? I can't se where the mick adams thing between Fingers and the easy problem just right goes.

I didn't try the finish to the undercut, kinda forgot about it, maybe next time.

[BenF]

I thought the curving flake thing is on fingers, hence the scouse photo above? I can't se where the mick adams thing between Fingers and the easy problem just right goes.

My understanding is that Fingers goes directly up edges from the huge jug (about 1.5 metres right of Simple Simon), with a right heel on edges below the curving flake, finishing on the ledge.  That's the way me and my mates climb it anyway and it certainly seems the obvious way to climb that section - the edges are lovely to use, the flake is pretty much out of reach and an independent line. 
The flake is climbed from the jugs on the 6b to the right of fingers, using a harsh RF heel toe lock thing and some cool undercutting with the left hand until you can slap to the high break.  This is how Mick climbed the flake; leaving the start of the 6b and heading up the flake as I just described, always away from the Fingers problem to the left.   

That's our beta for them anyway.  Obviously our methods are totally correct and cannot be argued with. 

[cofe]

I thought the curving flake thing is on fingers, hence the scouse photo above? I can't se where the mick adams thing between Fingers and the easy problem just right goes.

My understanding is that Fingers goes directly up edges from the huge jug (about 1.5 metres right of Simple Simon), with a right heel on edges below the curving flake, finishing on the ledge.  That's the way me and my mates climb it anyway and it certainly seems the obvious way to climb that section - the edges are lovely to use, the flake is pretty much out of reach and an independent line. 
The flake is climbed from the jugs on the 6b to the right of fingers, using a harsh RF heel toe lock thing and some cool undercutting with the left hand until you can slap to the high break.  This is how Mick climbed the flake; leaving the start of the 6b and heading up the flake as I just described, always away from the Fingers problem to the left.   

That's our beta for them anyway.  Obviously our methods are totally correct and cannot be argued with. 

BenF - i argue with your methods thus:

only 'scouse' scouse dave acutally used the crack like that. we just locked up from a crimp above the pocket with feet low to gaston the crack, foot in the pocket, get the big crimp, shazam. did wonder about this but it would seem to be shoehorning many problems into a small area. dare i used the word 'eliminate' yes i dare.

  only pre-epting dave's reply later...

[BenF]

dare i used the word 'eliminate' yes i dare.

No, no, no, no. 

I am more puzzled the more I think about this.  The utterly obvious way to climb that section from the jug is straight up the obvious crimps. No-one I've visited with has ever done it any other way.  The crack is an obvious feature to be climbed in a leftwards stylee from the jugs just left of the 6b. 

I am sorely tempted to head down there this week and post photos showing the obvious, non-eliminate nature of these problems.  Non-eliminate unless you are all ten foot tall with a similar wingspan.  Which I know that you are not.  Or at least I know that Scouse ain't anyway.

You guys!   

[dave]

Since Fingers Start is the start to a route (Fingers In Every Pie E6) it would seem pretty clear that it would go up using everything, as routes do - the 89 staffs guide certainly doesn't say "climb up to the break using everything except the large obvious flake because someone might want to use it to shoehorn a barely independant eliminate boulder problem in between this and the next route some time in the next 20 years".

[cofe]

told you i was just pre-empting his royal daveness.

[dave]

john you're like Alison Moyet, you know me so well.

[BenF]

Since Fingers Start is the start to a route (Fingers In Every Pie E6) it would seem pretty clear that it would go up using everything, as routes do - the 89 staffs guide certainly doesn't say "climb up to the break using everything except the large obvious flake because someone might want to use it to shoehorn a barely independant eliminate boulder problem in between this and the next route some time in the next 20 years".

  Quality riposte, have some waddage Dave.

And neither did I say "don't use the flake".  I did say that the flake doesn't seem useful or necessary though (I don't find it any use, in fact I'd go as far as to say that it makes the problem harder). 

In summary... I honestly don't think that the flake is useful for the independent line to it's left and the flake also makes a pretty independent line that comes in from the right.  This seems appropriate for modern bouldering (but obviously a little contrived if we're talking routes).  I shall go and find some mates to back my opinion up.

[Bonjoy]

 Consider me well and truly aboard this bandwaggon! Made my first visit to the Churnet yesterday (save for a couple of visits to Wooton lodge many moons ago, good spot shame about the access).
 A fine enchanted valley indeed. Did the same tour as dave et al. That LH Pine problem at cottage must be good and tricky if you pretend the big start ledge isn't there 7b+?? The Wright's hype is justified, great rock, perfect landings, amazing setting and quality problems.
 Having read the thread on the new problems I am still pretty confused, especially now the links to the photos are dead. Someone in the know really needs to do a topo.
 Didn't try Fingers or the flake to it's right but they looked like two worthy seperate lines to me.
 The new Roaches guide mentions that the finger crack/undercut line in the roof on the far left is unclimbed, does anyone know if this is still the case?
 Was on my tod so bottled most of the higher things, very keen to go back with a team! Must get to Gentleman's next time too.
 Oh and I found a good pound and a half of Chanterelles, what more could you want.

[Bonjoy]

Anyone know whereabouts at Cottage Rock this is? I didn't see it on any bit I went to
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.html?id=15979

[james]

This is what I took the problems to be.  From right to left:

Warchild - start up the sloper problem, move left ~1 meter to reasonable hold in break, up into roof using small, posotive undercut and span out too good small hold on edge of slopey break. Match, hang in controll, dropp off.  Very good moves, especially at the bottom. 

Point Break - Starts up the undercut problem, then stand up into good, flat undercut at the back of the roof,  move both feet up and reach out for juggy break. Match, hang in controll, dropp off.

Johny Utah - Start up the 6b, Right hand on good small sidepull and big reach out left into the big curving flake.  Match and make a long reach for good slopey non break.  Match in controll and drop off.

Fingers in every pie direct - From good edges right of the jug on SS make a long move up to a very good edge (can go either hand with various foot sequences).  Then carry on for a few more moves to get to the break.

Simple Simon - Jump or climb up to huge jug.  Move through the next few slopey edges and crimps to get to the break.  Lots of possible sequences.  I Pul on, left heel, right hand to first slopey edge, left to small crimp, spin round and put right toe on starting jug (very bunched), right to good edge, left to break. 

Tam Tam Sam - The way I think it goes is a huge move but eliminate.  Jump to jug on SS and then Move slightly up and leftwards to a reasonable hold.  Left foot out left and huge move to jugs round lip.  If you dont eliminate the crimp up and right (use with left hand on SS) then it is a lot easier and can be done static.

Hope this helps.

[BenF]

I think James summed the lines up pretty accurately there.  Nice one.

[Bonjoy]

Tah. That's makes a lot more sense.

[Monolith]

As many of you echoed, an awesome venue that I've known about for years but only got there today by chance really. We had to change tactics from the usual South Lakes express route fearing rain but an 8.30ish start produced reasonable conditions.

Wanted Simple Simon bad but sadly due to time constraints couldn't continue to push on with the eventual toe scrub bit of beta I came across. 6ft 2" into that space of problem is hard I tell you!

Sorry for the innane commentary, I just had to enthuse for those who haven't been.