[James Malloch]

If anyone has ever climbed with me then you'll know I get stupidly scared about topping out - even things which are super easy (and I mean really easy) I always have visions of myself peeling off from the top, feet staying on and then having some kind of uncontrolled fall.

If it's low I'm better but it has to be really low to be actually comfortable.

If it's slopey or I need to get a heel / high foot then it's a complete no at even attempting it.

Luckily I love limestone so getting to jugs and dropping off is great. But it would be nice to be able to sample more of the grit around me in Skipton. I did a bit at Sharphaw (on the recommendation of a friend) and that was nice as there's some really small blocks, but I still got petrified and down-climbed most of the things I tried!

I wondered if anyone has any advice on how to get better at this? I know that just doing it more and more will help, but I'm not sure on what venues to go for, or how to really address this fear properly. It's pretty irrational as I've often done all the hard climbing, only to then down-climb it all.

[teestub]

I reckon Brimham is probably the best antidote for this, tonnes of problems across the grades and height ranges where getting on top is often the hardest bit. Rather than recommending things to you I think having a tour around and checking stuff out and finding grades and heights you’re comfortable with would be the best start, and then you can work up from there. There’s a few classics of the genre right in the first area (Pommel, Black Dog, Anchor) and even the warm up boulder there requires some decent top out skills.

[RobK]

I had a friend like this, who could happily boulder up to about 6C, but could not top anything out through fear. Even easy top outs on 4s and 5s he would struggle with. In the end, I ended up sat (well, usually laid down) on top of a load of boulders as a sort of upside down safety net, so if he got scared I could essentially pull him up the problem. As I write this I realise how stupid this sounds, but over the course of a few sessions he did get much better and more confident! These days he'll whack a high heel up on a top out, which would have previously been unthinkable.

[kelvin]

My right wrist only has 40% left of its movement and topping out was always frightening, I never knew if the wrist would catch me out.
So I went to Font for a month and some days stayed on really easy circuits, were you reach the top out fresh. It was easy to get 50 or so problems in, many of them rubbish but a top out is a top out and always different.
It certainly helped me.

[Paul B]

James, head over to Widdop or Scout on an appropriate day and just run around on the easy circuit. There's a nice mix of grades and heights to play with and everything from maul your way on top to slink off left at height.

Happy to provide padding / heckling as required but in all seriousness, Nat struggles with being high on things and had a really productive evening the other week topping something out well above her comfort zone. What's alarming is her go-to in these situations to put her feet alarmingly high whether it's sensible to do so or not.

[SA Chris]

Practise mantelling in dead safe situations? Even on unnamed blocks, any which are chest height or higher? You could even practise on the kitchen table.

[Fultonius]

Do you do any route climbing? Top roping or seconding a load of short routes with top-outs (can't help with recommendations I'm afraid) might help?

[cheque]

The phrase “up, not forward” helped me improve at topping out. My mate who hates mantles is absolutely sick of me saying it to him but he can’t deny it works!

Doing mantles on boulders that are low and safe (ie not even recorded boulder problems, just shoulder-height rocks) is a good way to practice and remind yourself of what you can do. Not hard to find really slopey ones. Edit: Chris beat me to that!

There’s a great problem below Millwheel Wall at Burbage South Quarries that’s just a flat ledge you press up onto without feet and feels totally steady because it’s low and there’s no climbing before it. When I get to a tricky top out I just compare it to that in my head “it’s just a slopier version of the millwheel but it’s got footholds”, “it’s steeper than the millwheel but I’ve got this hold” etc. and (usually) get it done.

[James Malloch]

Thanks for all the suggestions so far - it's much appreciated!

One thing I was wondering (from thinking about the recent fall-practice thread) is whether I'm just not confident in how I'd fall in such situations. I even bail off the top-outs at the climbing lab in Leeds half the time as I have a picture in my head of something that probably unlikely to happen...

Practise mantelling in dead safe situations? Even on unnamed blocks, any which are chest height or higher? You could even practise on the kitchen table.

I did do this a bit in the Lakes once. Kept climbing a 7A to the easiest top out imaginable but just couldn't commit to it. My friend told me to do a similar top out (at chest height) a load. I found it super easy and could never imagine falling off it, but putting it a few meters higher meant I couldn't commit even after doing this lower, harder one 20/30 times.

Probably a good idea though to give it another go.

The phrase “up, not forward” helped me improve at topping out. My mate who hates mantles is absolutely sick of me saying it to him but he can’t deny it works!

By this do you mean you need to climb upwards / stay upright? I know I'm always reaching as far back as I can if there's something which is a little more crimp-like to hold on to, but this then makes sorting your feet out harder a lot of the time so I think I get what you mean by this!

So I went to Font for a month and some days stayed on really easy circuits, were you reach the top out fresh. It was easy to get 50 or so problems in, many of them rubbish but a top out is a top out and always different.

I did this on a kids circuit once in Font and had a fun few hours. But I then moved onto the easiest non-kids circuit and quickly got scared again!

I had a friend like this, who could happily boulder up to about 6C, but could not top anything out through fear. Even easy top outs on 4s and 5s he would struggle with. In the end, I ended up sat (well, usually laid down) on top of a load of boulders as a sort of upside down safety net, so if he got scared I could essentially pull him up the problem. As I write this I realise how stupid this sounds, but over the course of a few sessions he did get much better and more confident! These days he'll whack a high heel up on a top out, which would have previously been unthinkable.

That sounds silly but sounded like it worked! I might get my partner to pull me up next time! What fultonious said about top-roping/seconding is similar I guess, but having someone to pul/grab instead of a rope.

On limestone I boulder around 7B (though much lower on grit in general) so it's not a strength thing for me. I just psyche myself out really easily if it's not just a completely flat top with jugs to grab and good feet.

James, head over to Widdop or Scout on an appropriate day and just run around on the easy circuit. There's a nice mix of grades and heights to play with and everything from maul your way on top to slink off left at height.

Happy to provide padding / heckling as required but in all seriousness, Nat struggles with being high on things and had a really productive evening the other week topping something out well above her comfort zone. What's alarming is her go-to in these situations to put her feet alarmingly high whether it's sensible to do so or not.

I'd be up for heading over there one day. There would be plenty of heckling needed for sure! I think I keep my feet alarmingly low in an effort to not commit 

I was at Bridestones recently but struggled with stuff there.

Things I topped out:
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/bridestones_west_yorkshire-1016/area_16_problem_2-596647
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/bridestones_west_yorkshire-1016/holdless-90793

Things I got too scared on:
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/bridestones_west_yorkshire-1016/area_2_problem_16-593090
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/bridestones_west_yorkshire-1016/cleopatra-39297#photos (did the crux but couldn't commit to going more than about 1/2 way up)
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/bridestones_west_yorkshire-1016/area_16_problem_3_-_last_love-90795

[cheque]

The phrase “up, not forward” helped me improve at topping out. My mate who hates mantles is absolutely sick of me saying it to him but he can’t deny it works!

By this do you mean you need to climb upwards / stay upright? I know I'm always reaching as far back as I can if there's something which is a little more crimp-like to hold on to, but this then makes sorting your feet out harder a lot of the time so I think I get what you mean by this!

Yep, concentrate on going up with your torso, keeping your weight above your hands and feet. Aim to stand up onto the front of the surface you’re topping out onto as if it’s a narrow ledge, even when it’s not.

I find opposing your hands (ie. on one hand your thumb is pointing towards you, the other it’s pointing away etc.) uses the barndoor effect to your advantage and stops the feeling that you’ll see-saw forwards or backwards that you can get if they’re both facing the same way.

Basically do the opposite of this:

[Bonjoy]

If it's getting in the way of you getting up stuff just bring a short rope and get in the habit of working the topout on abseil first  . I do this pretty frequently when putting up new things and the odd time on repeats. As much as anything it just allows me to get up stuff quickly with minimal pad numbers and no spotter. Some people are going to look at you funny, but who cares, it's a boulder problem, just do what it takes to have an enjoyable successful ascent.

[tomtom]

Do the same top out several times. Refine the technique - try other ones - until it feels natural/easy. Then find another one

[dunnyg]

It may or may not help, but i fou d that font 4 at bridestones you got scared on pretty wiggy!

[James Malloch]

It may or may not help, but i fou d that font 4 at bridestones you got scared on pretty wiggy!

I looked at Horror Arête after your recommendation, didn’t take my shoes off haha! Though my friend flew up it - looks like an awesome line!

[James Malloch]

I had a dog walk at Shipley Glen today and took a sit-start pad along. Managed to do about 45 “problems” with top-outs. I put problems in inverted commas as the majority were under 2m high so couldn’t really be called problems as I could reach the top.

Didn’t commit to a few hanging rock-overs as everything I was trying was horrible and scrittly, but it was a nice fun hour or so out.

I also hate slabs so did a few of the real shallow (c.30-40 degrees) ones without hands and another 4-5m high steeper one (maybe 50-60 degrees). I traversed the bottom of the latter to get used to moving just using feet and padding with hands more, and then the side of the slab basically had a giant jug rail the entire way up so I did a few variations up not using it, but knowing I could grab it at any point. If the jug rail wasn’t there it would easily be the most committing slab I’ve done.

Also did one token real problem (maybe 4-5m) and after a few ums and ahs I did the top nice and easily. The top was fine, I was mainly just worried about slipping as I didn’t have a proper pad and it was a crappy landing.

Rocking onto a slab, breaking a pebble and twatting my knee stopped play but I’m keen to do back and do a similar day there too - it’s perfect to combine with a dog walk.

Some progress!

[Fiend]

How many top-outs did the dog manage tho??

Also, more gritstone Hard Severes will sort you out 

[James Malloch]

How many top-outs did the dog manage tho??

Also, more gritstone Hard Severes will sort you out 

Way more than me (at a relative height to him anyway).

Grit HS etc are the worst, easy enough to know you can definitely do them and can also hang around on them for as long as you want. But then still scary. The perfect combination of things I hate.