[dave]

yo check this out

did a bad dropknee thing tonite, it hurt and I heard some crunching in there, its really stiff now and hard to bend without pain, and stiffens up if its imobile for any length of time - probably gonna hurt like a cunt in the morning.

Now i'm no stranger to this having done the same before (only without the crunching sound) to the same knee a few years ago, and had a couple minor tweaks of it like once a year since. I'm sure in the past it's been OK after a few days, but I want to know what i should be doing to A. make it heal good, and B. try and avoid doing it again. Of course the obvious thing would be to avoid dropknees with that knee, and indeed i will have to work out another more comfortable sequence for the end of powerband, but any practical advice (on the knee not powerband, i've already done powerband i just want it more wired.....and don't say use the "approved" sequence and stop trying to lank it....)? Am i just sentenced to getting this kinda thing happen periodically for ever more or is there anything productive i can do about it?

cheers ears

[Houdini]

I haven't the time to read all on this site.

You might.  Perhaps there's something here for you, Dave.

http://www.kneeguru.co.uk

[dave]

shit theres a lot on there. I'll have to have a read through....unless anyone wants to give me the gist of it..

[dave]

ok word sounds like a "medial meniscal tear". Certainly sounds a bit better than a "fucked knee".

[SA Chris]

What's the recommended cure Dave, see a sturgeon?

That's a damn useful site houdini, need to see if they recommend anything for the daily "grind" of my knee.

[Johnny Brown]

I was sat in a plas-y-minibus on the internat meet a couple of weeks ago talking to 3 others. Some one mentioned knees and it turned out all 4 had all had meniscus tears and arthroscopies to correct. Can't really offer any tips on how to avoid other than cycling to strengthen your leg muscles to support the knee better. Walking to the tor ain't gonna give you beefy legs. Second, avoid impacting the knee - use plenty of pads and don't go running. After my operation, which involves cutting off the tear (though the guy couldn't actually find mine  and just 'cleaned it up a bit') I had physio and acupuncutre, plus the cycling seemed to sort it double quick. 3 years later and its still not right. If the tear doesn't heal the ligaments will start catching on it tear it bigger, your knee will start locking up, then you need the operation. Not much use but info anyway. Mine still ain't right.

[JR]

i'd see a surgeon if i were you dave if its that bad...

Try and get your GP to refer you to Jeremy Brown at the northern he's good, sorted my screwed knee out.

Ok, i didnt have a meniscal tear but i did have a snapped cruciate ligament.  Getting these things sorted as soon as possible is often the key to success in my experience.  JBs post kind of reinforces that, if you dont do things to remedy it or to help its healing itll likely get worse.  Cycling will help but cycling and some proper advice is gonna help more. The only thing that hurts now on my DIY body is my wrist that had no real long term treatment, for what its worth my knee despite everything is fine and doesnt hardly restrict me at all now and ive got another 3months till heaing time is complete.

[Sypeland]

ok word sounds like a "medial meniscal tear". Certainly sounds a bit better than a "fucked knee".

Happened to me 6 years ago at the Leeds wall. Mine was a bucket hadle tear which flapped over and jamed in the joint.
To cut a long story short, it may settle down, but in the long term there is only one cure, The surgeons knife. Mine was a bad one - eight weeks off work, daily physio and no climbing for six months.

[dave]

....and don't go running.

you're preaching to the converted.

this morning it wasn't stiff at all, and i got into work fine and even just walked home instead of the bus. doesn't hurt now when just walking normally its just the twisting thing, and feels wierd when trying to lift it up on its own. This is nowhere near as bad as last time this happened cos i probably did exactly the wrong thing, took loads of ibs and kept climbing on it...

going on the feeling now I imagine in the scheme of things if it is a meniscal tear is probably a minor one or just some kinda lower-level damage to the meniscal shit. Theres no swelling at all. I've also been going through the stuff on that site for recuperating this kinda shit and its all gravy.

I may get some kinda doctors opinions but as i'd basically be turning up with basiaclly no symptoms and almost no pain or discomfort they'd probbaly tell me to fuck off and not to be a hypochondriac. I'll probably see how it goes.

[JR]

I may get some kinda doctors opinions but as i'd basically be turning up with basiaclly no symptoms and almost no pain or discomfort they'd probbaly tell me to fuck off and not to be a hypochondriac. I'll probably see how it goes.

that aint necessarilly true, if, which is a big possibility, you havent actually torn your meniscal and have done something else.

problems twisting can be attributed to other things aswell, critically cruciate ligaments.  When i did mine there was no swelling, there was pain intially but was walking fine and painless after a few days.  Then there was a recurrence, initial pain and crunching and, guess what, the pain went away after a day or so.  I rock up to the doctor with no real apparent symptoms, only history, he does different tests on my ligaments and diagnoses me with the correct condition.  Ok yours may not be as severe but it could be, and its probably also diagnosable in a similar vein.  Id get it checked if it was me, even if it all it does is backup what youve read on knee guru, you may just get a doctor that knows a little more about knees than we can learn in 5 minutes from reading websites.  Just my two pence worth.

[Houdini]

Dave, I think the lesson that you should learn from this episode is cut out these hideous Egyptians.  Time and time again I hear people with tales like yours, especially from limestone climbers.

Find another way around that move, ie: get stonger in your arms and core.  And for fuck's sake, avoid The Assyrian at all costs, or as you might know them, the double-Egyptian.

[dave]

Just my two pence worth.

word i'm hearing you on FM. Hopefully its nothing a serious as even your most minor injuries john! I'm not saying you're unlucky, but if you fell into a barrel of tits you'd come out sucking your own thumb.

[superfurrymonkey]

Climb as open as you can all the time it opens up so much more for you and youdont end up tearing your knees apart!!

[Paz]

Fuck me dude, I thought I had some bad luck with Egyptian issues but I'll have mine over yours. 
You can definitely live without them by avoiding outrageously steep rock too which is a bonus.  I'm all for rad shapes, body position and little outer edge twists but on the three hardest graded sport routes I've done, I've never done a proper bear down with your leg gypo, and on all the other easier ones that were any good, I didn't need to.  Egyptians, it's not like you want to place gear from one is it?

People haven't mentioned not climbing indoors either.  That fucks you up because you have to egyptian if you weak to keep up with the 14 year old girls burning you off.  I only really get a pulled muscle in the lower front of my upper leg gypo-ing indoor bouldering, which is better than a fucked knee.