[Simon S]

having had a occupation that involved a lot of bending ,shoing horses, and having near constant back pain and thoracic tightness it was thought to be occupational,  after years it has been diagnosed as Ankylosing Spondylitis .

So its not just me thats got this then! How long have you had it?
I got diagnosed about 3 years ago, before that I walked around like an old man, unable to run or even put my socks on in the morning. The pain was unbeleivable.

I agree with Tim about his comments on chiropratic and osteopathy-so many people seem to rave about how good they are and say they need to go back every 6 months. Not really sorting the problem is it! Personally I wouldn't go near them, as there range knowledge seems limited.  As I was, I was only diagnosed after seeing two GPs and two physios. The second of which cost a fortune, but it proved to be well worth it.

[widdop]

Spondylitis  is hard to live with , i was 20 when i started with having real problems the doc was baffled, i carried on and it was no fun looking back it was the getting over to others the real pain you were in that got me down . And it took another 10 years before the docs twigged ,and boy they were grim years ,i am 60 this year   and this is going to be the last year i will be shoing horses, all the advise i can give is keep moving and learn to live with it ,the loss of chest movment and lung capacity to me is a problem ,and on the bright side once the joints have fused that area becomes less painful , 

[Huffy]

This sounds well dodgy, and not to be recommended in public. First interlock your fingers around the back of your neck and bend your head forward. Then get a close "friend" to lift you up by the elbows and pull them in slightly and give you  bit of a jerk (read into that what you will). This can sort out vertebrae sometime. Works for me anyway, although I haven't had any hassles with it for a while.

Usual disclaimers apply.

Arrrgh!!!!!   

I know you have kind of qualified this with your disclaimer but it needs to be reiterated quickly (cos you know how literal some people take things from the net) that this sort of 'trick' can mark the start of all sorts of chronic long term problems with your neck!

The term for manouvers like this in physio is 'manips' short for manipulations and there are all sorts of courses you need to go on to qualify to be able to do this stuff. The spine is a pretty stable structure but the many ligaments, tiny muscles, facet joints and nerves are all potentially vulneralble to damage when doing manips. They are not the answer and only offer a short term solution to the probem as someone else has already said. Need regular prescribed exercises from a good sports physio ideally.

I know of people with AS who've seen dietitions for a while which apparently helped witht he inflammatory nature of this condition (all have been early stage as far as i know).

[Houdini]

This sounds well dodgy, and not to be recommended in public. First interlock your fingers around the back of your neck and bend your head forward. Then get a close "friend" to lift you up by the elbows and pull them in slightly and give you  bit of a jerk (read into that what you will). This can sort out vertebrae sometime. Works for me anyway, although I haven't had any hassles with it for a while.

Usual disclaimers apply.

Arrrgh!!!!!   

I know you have kind of qualified this with your disclaimer but it needs to be reiterated quickly (cos you know how literal some people take things from the net) that this sort of 'trick' can mark the start of all sorts of chronic long term problems with your neck!

The term for manouvers like this in physio is 'manips' short for manipulations and there are all sorts of courses you need to go on to qualify to be able to do this stuff. The spine is a pretty stable structure but the many ligaments, tiny muscles, facet joints and nerves are all potentially vulneralble to damage when doing manips. They are not the answer and only offer a short term solution to the probem as someone else has already said. Need regular prescribed exercises from a good sports physio ideally.

I know of people with AS who've seen dietitions for a while which apparently helped witht he inflammatory nature of this condition (all have been early stage as far as i know).

Don't worry Huff, I'm not that daft to try every piece of advice from my fellow crips!  Infact, I have more issues with congenital-BS than AS...

However, I'd like to add, that the majority of manipulation techniques we see performed by sports masseurs etc.. have their roots in much older manipulative practices such as Thai massage - of which I'm a big fan.  I got through a recent 9 week or so bouldering trip (of burning the candle at both ends) by having two (not quite that full) full-body Thai massages a week;  from the oldest, ugliest hag you'd be likely to see in many snoop into massage parlours. 

She'd been at it for over 40 years, and clearly knew from one look at the Quasimodo stance I'd greet her with, what I needed her to do.  I did try and shop around a bit, looking for something approaching this century's model, but found them a little wanting in technique.  I went back to the old gal soon after.  She was a real bruiser, and I've rarely responded to a softly-softly approach.

Many professionals frequently talk out of their flaps, often mis-diagnosing the problem, and even exaccerbating the issue with disinformation.  Look at how many second opinions are sought by people with medical issues.

I'd never advocate completely trusting some old dear with a greater power to weight ratio than I could ever hope for; but neither would I suggest that people simply listen to only what their first pro has to say.  Knowledge is power.

[Huffy]

Hehe,

Dont worry matey, that post was not aimed at you (you really seem to know your stuff). It was for the people that might wreck themselves by assuming improvised homemade manips are the way forwards. I have seen a few cases of this when doing musculo skeletal outpatients.

Hope injuries are sorted.

Huffy

[SA Chris]

I know it was a sketchy suggestion and wouldn't recommend it if you have any doubts.

Is it getting any beter Houdini?

Still toight like a toiger?

[Houdini]

You know dude, I've actually got the most relief from an exercise that I remember from my misspent youth.  After not being able to get out of bed one time, I had a home visit from a doc.  He recommended that I lay down on my back on a carpet, go foetal, then rock back and forth.  This seems to be the ticket, and the thoraco-spasmic zone is becoming more flexible again.

But I haven't even mentioned the issue of my er, cervical tightness.  These vertebrae seems fused solid, and are making me look tres birdy.  I Just cannot do any exercise that I know to loosen-the-fux up a bit, and figure a good pro-beasting from a heavy-handed Kraut is in the post.

However, menisci problems in both knees are getting worse, and the patellae just won't stop bulging outwards.  Even a few K walking is a painful pest.  And now, I really am wishing that Nodder and I robbed that crip-chair that we saw unattended in Manc' Airport one time.  I'm off to see a orthopaedic shoemaker this week for special insoles, to help put them (the patellae) back in place.

When I'm back in the UK - I'm off to a cosher knee-specialist, and see if surgery is an option.  I've never driven (legally) and I figure that 30+ years of questing on foot has contributed to my spazz knees/ankles - not to mention collapsed heel-arches and rolling over on the ankle more times that I'd like to recall.

Naturally, I refuse to let mere injury stop me being (sorry, imagining) that I'm a God, and whatever happens, will go out in a blaze of glory, or ignominy etc..

Ain't it da troof!  White-boy!

[Falling Down]

This thread has been a real eye opener - I've been going to physio once or twice a year for tight Thorassic Vertebrae and Fascia manipulation.  I've found that adjusting my sitting posture to a concave lower back rather than slouching really helps.  However, the AS symptoms were scarily similar to other aches and pains and things that have been going on... perhaps I should see a Doctor..

[Houdini]

I posted these suggestions in the Patella Tracking Abnormality thread.  I'll repeat myself here:



Lie flat on your back with a towel rolled underneath the knee.  Rotate the ankle away from the body, then push down on the towel with your knee.  Hold for 10 secs.  Release.  Repeat 3 times, 3 times a day.

The same exercise can be performed sitting:

Straighten (raise up) the lower half of your leg til it is at approximately 80% extension.  Rotate the ankle outwards, then straighten the leg to it's fullest extent.  This will ultimately re-distribute muscle mass evenly on the knee and drag the patella back into position.






I'm grateful for the suggestion to take up footie.... 
                                                                      ....however, as an erectooooor of tensile fabric structures, more often than not I find myself working in football stadiums in 3 -5 month blox of grind.  I despise, loathe, abhor, and detest, The Ugly Game - in short - I fucking HATE football with a passion that excedes even the blood-boiling hatred that I would normally reserve for proper-cox like Jamie Oliver. 

The irony of what I have just written is not lost on me...

In fact, there are but 4 more days to go before Hamburg and the stadium I helped build and have been back to correct time and time and time again, will be overflowing with scum!

My secretary is making preparations to escape this god-forsaken town ASA(humanly fucking)P!  I just hope she doesn't forget to take me with her.

[Duma]

I haven't ever suffered, and know sweet fa about, AS, but saw this mentioned in an interview with a 'laughter coach' (yeah, I know). Book called 'Anatomy of an Illness' by Norman Cousins - apparently the guy cured himself of AS through laughter.

[SA Chris]

In that case Houdini will be cured in no time.

[Houdini]

Touche!



Though Chris, is saddens me to have to inform you, there is currently no cure for Congenital-BS.

[widdop]

This thread has been a real eye opener - I've been going to physio once or twice a year for tight Thorassic Vertebrae and Fascia manipulation.  I've found that adjusting my sitting posture to a concave lower back rather than slouching really helps.  However, the AS symptoms were scarily similar to other aches and pains and things that have been going on... perhaps I should see a Doctor..

       
     
             a simple blood test will give you the answer     ,say you think AS       all the best 

[Houdini]

I'm off to strap myself in to one of these thingumajigs later today; I hope I can still use it in a straight-jacket.



"Urrgh!  Crippy...."

Let you know if it's the bizzle or da shizzle.

[Houdini]

OK.

This is what I know about the Cripulator/Crip-u-later:




Myself and my obese türk/kraut friend had to endure many a stinky armpit on the underground to get to this place, eventually we found what we were looking for: the freebie automated massage parlour.  On entering we are greeted by what appeared to resemble a room full of OAP's strapped into networked orgasmatrons; their crotches rose and undulated in unison, the wave continued along to their skulls before decending once more to the hip, as the strangest of sounds emanated from their half-dead lips.  They were probably getting the hardest fuck in forty years...

We were greeted by a smiling Chinaman who said he was pleased to meet us and honoured that we had come to test his company's device.  He ushered us towards the seating where we were soon to be joined by a gaggle of assorted crips and olds.  The Chinaman noticed that I was covering my ears and had been since I sat down.

"Something wong?"
"Too right!" I spat.  "How am I supposed to relax and get in the mood with all this sheissdreck musak playing?  Haven't you got any Enya or whalesong..?  Anything!"
"Aaah!  ha ha.  No.  This music was specially composed to stop you from falling asleep on the massage bed.  So let's start with a little sing-song to help get rid of that stress.  After me:   Ra ra ra-ra-ra  ceragem Yeaaaah!"  (punching the air with each word).

I was sure this was a test and nothing to do with stress at all, nevertheless, Jasmin and I joined in and it was over quick enough.  It was time for us to take up our positions on the bed.

As the picture in the post above shows, the cripulator is basically a set of jade rollers that move along the spine, the undulation I noticed was the rollers applying pressure at specific points along the spine.   The jade rollers are heated to 60°C and they are hidden by the padding which you lie upon.  They also provide you with a device that looks somewhat like a carton for a dozen eggs.  This is a series of infra-red heating lamps which you are encouraged to place on a problem area.  No problem, slap it on the left knee, mate...

(All the time this was happening, we were treated to this particular tune, none-fucking-stop:

              Here's the place were your healthy life begins...
              A place where won-derful love-story begins...
              It's the place where your precious encounter takes place...
              This place is cera-cera-gem!

Chorus:    Coooooome leeeeet's joiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiin iiiiiin haaaaaar-mon-yyyyy!
              Coooooome leeeeet's loooooooove wiiiiiith ceragem!
              Coooooome to a healthy new woooooooorld!
              Happy days are wai-ting for you and meeeee!
              Coooooome join with meeeee, to a better world!
              Cerageeeeeem!
              Cera!
              Cera-cera-geeeeeeeeeeeeem!)

               (Ad nauseum)

...When the bed has reached it's temperature it starts, from the hip, to roll slowly along the spine towards the head.  It does this for a few cyles before reaching the lower back region and rising upwards, streching the spine as it rises.  It will wait here for what to me seemed like too long, before descending slightly and moving to the thoracic region, pushing upwards, and waiting for a while before moving along to the cervical region.  This process of roll - lift - stretch - descend - move - I found to be OK, with the exception of when it needed to move past the scapulae.  Mine stick out a bit from the press-ups/bouldering.  The rollers did have a habit of grabbing on to an edge of blade-bone and dragging me along the bed for a moment before depositing me with a clunk.  The Chinaman noticed this and suggested I try to relax more: go floppy.  I complied, and the passage of the rollers became easier as they moved on up to my neck.  In total, the Cripulator had me in it's clutches for 40 minutes.

I got off the bad sweating like a fat Finn in a sauna, and then endured the spiel about the benefits of this device.  There and then, I wanted to kung-fu kick him in the neck, but I figured he might be better at that particular game than I, I chose instead to do a joga stretch to allieviate the chronic case of the crips I had in the lower back.  This worked.  The dude assured me this was quite normal for first timers, and that second time it would be much smoother.  For a moment I was lost in youthful rememberance...     ...before snapping out of it and saying that I would return.

Since then I've returned once and noticed an instant improvement in the bird-neck thing I mentioned in another post.  It also helped to batter down that spasm-thang I've got in the lower trapezoid.  Of course, that's returned and will probably always be there unless I get some strong thumbs on it...   But overall, despite the fact that this is a machine and can neither hear nor respond to your feedback automatically, I found it to be most useful.

But I do wish they wouldn't try and fuck with our minds with that tune!  I'm convinced it was composed by Chinese pig-witches who added just too many subliminal messages for our own good.  @ nearly 2 and a half thousand € they can bog off!  But I'll go back for more freebies, now that I've worked out that the temperature can be raised or lowered to suit my needs.

Jasmin and I cradled our backs as we walked back to the underground, but she was a little disturbed by my swift rendition of Private Dancer, which, right then, me swede really, really needed.


Caveat emptor...