[fashionguru]

Just thought Id let every one know that yesterday Tony Simpson poped out to Turning stones for a couple of hours and managed to crab what he thinks is the second ascent of K.Youths "River of Life" V12 or 8a +, confirming the grade and most excellent problem.

One thing Tony wants to point out though is that he feels if Jame's recents points are true regards grades of some problems then we will have to look at this one carefully.

Ache Ball only V9 - Tony says this problem is not that much differnt in grade mybe 1 grade different but for him when he repeated Ache Ball he thought soft 8a. As for Enter the Dragon - He could not touch it so does that then make River of Life easier than V9/ 7c?

Tony states Grades are very subjective and are differnt in all areas and all over the world we as a climbing group need to be very carefull with all the technology advancements and new training methods producing better and more powerfull climbers does that mean that all problems that were climbed before these methods are easeir than when they were first put up. We also have to look at the way in which the crags are degrading both naturally and with traffic as holds do become larger/smaller with time but do we have to allways put the person whos problem it was down by shooting them down in flames about overgrading!!!!!


T.S  Nice one James great problem (shame about the excesive seepage) but lets hope the grade stays where it should do V12 as it is F****** hard mate.

[irish si]

you are tony simpson so why all the 3rd person talk.

James told me that he fell of the last move of enter the dragon, and that it was probably v9, he stated that he didnt do it cause he cut his thumb.

[fashionguru]

Hi Simon,

The reason for that 3rd person talk was infact because it was not me.

I do not have a computer atr the moment and am currently using a friends.
I asked them to post for me and gave them my details hope this helps clear things up.

As for James not doing Enter the Dragon I did not question why or why not he did not do it just the grade.

I tried this when Mike Adams repeated it very late on last year. Mike is no slouch as you probably know and it was full on for him to repeat it. I on the other I could not touch it.

Does that mean River of Life is less than V9? it must be if "ETD" is such a grade. This seams to me what everybody is doing with Grades now.

Can you remember Adams little flow chart of Ru's grading system? has everyone taken this to enthdegree?

I personally agree with James thinking that "ETD" is a crap looking line but does that make it any less worth while than anyother problem in the peaks. And what is pleasing to me is not to others, so can you see why people are getting so uptight about what is being written on these sites. Some people think "ROL" is shit because it nearly always wet, but to me it is one of the most impressive things I have seen and done in a long time.

If all everyone wants to do now to make a name for themself is to belittle everyone else and go for one upmanship then fine get on withit but then when it turns round and bites you back dont go complaining.

All I was trying to do with the comments about grading was to make people see that all this bitching is doing nothing for the sport and our grading system should be expanding not being closed down.

Hope you are happy with that reply as I will not be posting again for a while.

Tony

[irish si]

it wasn't you?? ha ha

the whole downgrading thing is getting a bit ridiculous to be honest but hey its been going on for years, and just cause one person gives their grade opinion doesnt mean its right, as the masses know.  You have to have done as much as dave graham to start giving definitives.  i think justin plumtree did ETD last week also. i may be wrong.

good effort on ROL

[james]

Well, here is my twopeneth All I go on is how it felt for me and how long it took.  Examples:
Few tries
Big boss 7c
Full Power 7c+
Tsunami 7c+
Ache ball (damp) 7c
Aching balls 7c+
Le toit du greau 7c+
Westwood 7c+
Le arete de boisy 7c+

Few Days
Hats for youths 8a
Dark horse 7c+/8a
Steep sharma arete 8a
Big dragon 8a

Lots of days (5+)
The buttermilker 8a+
River Of Life 8a+

Granted there are iregularities, but on the whole there is a pretty strong pattern.  
Regarding Enter the dragon, I worked out the moves and fell off the top slopers on my first link attempt.  On my next go I ripped a 5p sized flapper off my left thumb.  Tried again but covered the starting hold in blood and tore another bloody fapper so gave up.  Now, I know I didnt do it, but I feel I can confidently say, for me, it didnt feel that hard.  You had a good few sessions on ROL so im sure that if you tried ETD a little more, with good beta, and your current good form, you would find it ok.

I would love to be able to boulder 8a+ in a few goes, have a fast car, a lot of money, gold toilet seat, 8 inch foundry mat, self dignity 3 inch penis,
big biceps, be black, big triceps, a good man to love, a house in font, a house in swiz, a house, a mullett................
.........a falabella.......................a record deal................. some friends....................Love.......

[james]

...

[saltbeef]

able to boulder 8a+ in a few goes, have a gold toilet seat, self dignity 3 inch penis,
big biceps, big triceps, a good man to love, a mullett................
.........a falabella........................

do you want to be uncle?

[Bonjoy]

I personally agree with James thinking that "ETD" is a crap looking line but does that make it any less worth while than anyother problem in the peaks. And what is pleasing to me is not to others, so can you see why people are getting so uptight about what is being written on these sites. Some people think "ROL" is shit because it nearly always wet, but to me it is one of the most impressive things I have seen and done in a long time.

 There only seems to be one person 'bitching' on 'these sites' from where i'm sitting.

If all everyone wants to do now to make a name for themself[,] is to belittle everyone else and go for one upmanship then fine get on with it but then when it turns round and bites you back dont go complaining.

 Have I missed something? I thought I'd read James give his honest opinion on the grade and quality of a problem. Now it's all everyone wants to do is belittle everyone else etc.

All I was trying to do with the comments about grading was to make people see that all this bitching is doing nothing for the sport and our grading system should be expanding not being closed down.

 Opinions differ Tony, it's called debate. You have decided to label it bitching, thrown a few self righteous insulting remarks about and then accused everyone else of damaging the sport with the things they say. Do you see no irony in that ?

 
 Do I hear banjos...?

[Nigel]

I don't see the problem with people giving their honest opinion of a grade, which is what James does. As an example, I have to admit to being a bit miffed when he thought The Terrace was 7b+ because personally I thought it was hard, but then I did see him piss all over it with possibly the shoddiest display of footwork I've seen  :wink: It obviously wasn't a problem for him and he was just telling it how it felt, to him.

I'm sure this is the case with his comments on EtD. I'm not up to a short V12 and I didn't even try it, but I've seen and tried a lot of stuff of a similar difficulty, and I'll stick my neck out and say that I reckon James is probably nearer the mark gradewise on this. Hey maybe he's undergrading again and its really V10/11, but I reckon you've really got to be sticking your neck into space to say this is as hard as Careless, Inertia Reel Trav, Full Power, or only one grade easier than stuff like Voyager, The Ace, Walk Away.

[Greg C]

I don't see the problem with people giving their honest opinion of a grade, which is what James does.

No neither do I.
Although from sitting behind your computer - and not being privy to the all the emotion based pub talk those in Sheffield are - most of what both James and Keith write on these forums regarding the grades of problems, does comes over as though they are proclaiming it as gospel rather than a personal view.

Not a dig just a little observation from those afar.

[Nigel]

...most of what both James and Keith write on these forums regarding the grades of problems, does comes over as though they are proclaiming it as gospel rather than a personal view.

Very fair point, that is how it comes across sometimes. However they are kept in check by people telling them when the're wrong. This only tends to happen in Sheffield pubs I'm afraid! Which isn't very often either because finding either one in a pub is pretty rare.  :roll:

[Sloper]

Just a quick question which Tony Simpson is the Tony Simpson above?

Can some one also explain tautology.

[Sloper]

thanks I'm truly very grateful

[Fingers of a Martyr]

I thought a tautology was something that was true by definition? 'A bachelor is a single man' for instance?

[Obi-Wan is lost...]

I thought a tautology was something that was true by definition? 'A bachelor is a single man' for instance?

I truly and totally believe you both to be correct and right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology

[Yossarian]

"a bachelor is a single man" isn't a tautology.  that is its definition after all.

a "single bachelor" would be however.

as would the feline cat, the religious priest, or the effiminate hairdresser...

[cofe]

do we have any breaking news yet?

[Nibile]

tautology is literally "of the same meaning"
so basically anything that adds no information or knowledge to a question or a statement.

[a dense loner]

just been informed that bonjoy did it today, but unlike me doesn't like to blow his own trumpet. nice one his gooseness

[Bonjoy]

 Andy Banks beat me to it by minutes also. Brilliant prob, best grit roof i've ever done for sure.

[cofe]

apparently Prince had his lower ribs removed so he could blow his own trumpet. nice one to banksy and goosebumps. c'est magnifique.

[a dense loner]

shit, didn't realise that. nice one andy as well. where these both one day ascents?

[cofe]

where these both one day ascents?

both at turningstone. in the peaks.

[unclesomebody]

Congrats to Jon and Andy. Fine, and fast, ascents.  I'm sure those who experienced the peak today won't believe that there was a load of dry rock at Turningstone. An amazing crag. Potentially it may have had another ascent by some unknown who turned up as we were leaving.

[Ru]

Will this be dry tomorrow? Is it still 8a+?