[Buoux 8C]

Check out the Moon website for advice on fngerboard training and also a sample sesison plan.

https://www.moonclimbing.com/index.php?form_action=school

I have just finished writing an article on Systems training which should be up shortly, so stay posted. Feel free to offer any feedback, either in this thread or via a private message.

Cheers Rich Simpson

[Andy W]

just an observation but why are finger pull ups dangerous, also much of your advice seems to be so expertly ignored by D. Graham in video clip 'small amazing things'...  http://www.zanik.pl/filmy/

by the way this is not really a serious point!

[account_inactive]

Rich.  Cheers for the article.  You seem to a very busy man

Can you explain this to me

It's worth noting that improving open hand strength will also make you strong in the crimped position but not the other way around

What do you base this on?

D

[account_inactive]

Well that's good enough for me then  

The reason I asked is that when you train open hand you are not weighting the flexor digitorum superficialis.  This is the muscle used for a crimp of pinch grip.  

I wondered if this was just his opinion or it was shared by many.  

Science says no
Rich says yes

Discuss

[dobbin]

How many scientists do you know that can climb 9a?

(except Rupert)

[account_inactive]

Just because someone climbs hard doesn't mean that they know why or how this relates to everyone else.

I just wanted to know the reasons behind what Rich said

Does every climbing scientist need to climb 9a to be respected?

[Ru]

The reason I asked is that when you train open hand you are not weighting the flexor digitorum superficialis.  This is the muscle used for a crimp of pinch grip.  

Thought I could smell the whiff of SCIENCE on the way home. Surely the point is that to get maximal force through a finger tip when open handed the joint between the middle and proximal phalanx (which everyone knows is the insertion of the flexor digitorum superficialis) is slightly bent, even more so with a half crimped position. Training open handed will therefore stress the flexor digitorum superficialis but without the mechanical advantage of the crimp grip. I concede that an extremely open position may not stress the superficial flexor that much. You will also note that training open handed will train the deep flexor that inserts into the distal phalanx.

Whilst crimping however, the joint between the distal and middle phalanges is hyper extended and therefore the deep flexor is not stressed. Training crimped therefore will not greatly add to open hand strength which is dependant on the strength of the deep flexor, but training open handed will have a positive effect on crimp strength.

At a guess.

[dave]

go rupert

[account_inactive]

Are..............a sensible reply at last.

As far as I can tell there are no studies to suport this that I have read. When training for isometric contractions, such as found in the forearm muscles in climbing, the greatest gains are specific to within about 15 degrees joint angle used in the training activity.  This implies that there should be little or no cross over between the two.
Isometric strength increases are joint-angle specific. That is, if isometric contractions are performed at specific joints, strength increases will be seen at the specific joint angle trained


But I could be wrong...........at a guess

 :wink:

[Buoux 8C]

Just a quick reply since i am in a rush,

Apart from the fact that Myself, Ramon julian, Paxti usobiaga and many other world class climbers have never needed to train in a crimped positon, yet having all climbed severely crimpy routes.

We have all found purely training and climbing open handed has allowed sufficent benefits, allowing us to open hand all but the smallest holds, and still not hindered when needed to crimp like fuck.

Check out the list of crimpy routes we have all climbed, and tell us how our training does not allow the benefits of training open handed to transfer to a crimped position.

If you still dont believe my reasoning, continue to train how you feel right, as will I.

Cheers Rich

[Buoux 8C]

Also of note,

I am no expert, i only write how i feel its best to train, its all subjective. Others may feel differently. Its not gospel. But i feel my experience has given me a great deal of knowledge which i try to present through my articles as accurately as i know. Like i said, no one is forced to follow them. Try Planetfear if you are not convinced.


Cheers Rich

[dave]

Thats all very well in practice, but how does it work in theory.....

word

[account_inactive]

Thanks for letting me know Rich :D

Its interesting to hear that these climbers also feel like this.  This gives us scientists (easy Ru/Stuart) something more to research.  It would be possible the use an EMG to quantify what muscles are activated and when with these different grips.

[tobym]

I think Dave McLeod does research along some of those principles, maybe worth asking him?

[webbo]

rich or anyone.i currentley boulder/train 3 times aweek,usually 2 indoor sessions 1 outdoor.sometimes i get the chance to do another indoor session.the question is would i be better doing a finger board session rather than just bouldering.
i am climber c in your questionaire.

[account_inactive]

I think Dave McLeod does research along some of those principles, maybe worth asking him?

So do I................and as I said there is no research at the mo

[tobym]

You could try asking around (on here for example) for subjects to set up your own trial, I'm a bit busy at the mo'  though, with work

[account_inactive]

You could try asking around (on here for example) for subjects to set up your own trial, I'm a bit busy at the mo'  though, with work

Thats a good idea.  Problem is everyones based all around the country.  Maybe I need to pick somewhere like the peak.  Will let you know when I start testing

[sjw]

I've done the fingerboard workout a few times now and I like it a lot, feels much more benificial than others I've done, in that eg. there are no daft small crimp 4x 20s hangs which leave your hands crippled for days. The only thing i skip are the smallest full crimp hangs because it always feels like too much strain on my poor little fingers. Other than that i'd give two thumbs up... still a hard enough workout for me to only do it once a week!

[Paul B]

is it just me or has the moon traning diary stopped?

[squeek]

is it just me or has the moon traning diary stopped?

He must have decided he's done enough and has given up, maybe he's going to open a pie shop or something?

[Fras]

I think Dave McLeod does research along some of those principles, maybe worth asking him?

I asked him this very question recently and he felt there was no transferable benefits, either way.

I'm just passing on what I was told - I have no expertise or knowledge on the matter. I just know i'm weak at both, but less weak at crimping.