[remus]

Good question, that statement caught my eye too. That article is behind a paywall for me unfortunately, but off the top of my head Maddy Cope could be on there for Prinzip Hoffnung (seems to get 13d or 14a depending where you look), and Babsi is the other obvious one. Heather weidner has also done China Doll on trad. With a generous count that makes 7 women straight off. Surely there's more?!

ed. found a way to view that article. 9 on the list so far:

Lynn Hill (If The Nose counts?)
Beth Rodden
Barbara Zangerl
Heather Weidner
Nadine Wallner
Maddy Cope (If Prinzip Hoffnung counts?)
Hazel Findlay
Brittany Goris
Emilie Pellerin

[jwi]

Lena Marie Müller has also done Prinzip Hoffung

[Duncan campbell]

Seem to remember Maddy thought Prinzip was E9 and 8b? But she is an absolute beast so it could be harder!

[jwi]

How trad is the crux pitch (8c) on Orbayu? A lot more trad than changing corners I think as the upper part of the pitch is pretty hard and on small wires? Also, I never understood if Nina Caprez freed the crux pitch or not, nevermind the entire route. So tentatively Nina Caprez should go on to the list as well maybe?

Anyway, all this made me reflect on how rare naturally protected routes with high pure difficulty are. I mean, 8b+ is a very pedestrian grade.

[remus]

Anyway, all this made me reflect on how rare naturally protected routes with high pure difficulty are. I mean, 8b+ is a very pedestrian grade.

Funny isn't it. The hardest trad (say Tribe) is at a level of difficulty that was first established 30 years ago. To me it suggests that the people at the top of sport climbing just aren't that interested in trad (which is fair enough). You can't help but think that if Ondra/Megos/Stefano turned their hand to a bit of trad the top level would go up pretty sharply (e.g. Megos' flash of The Path which is 8b+ on trad).

[cheque]

Surely it makes sense that pieces of rock that only have small holds on don’t have runner placements either?

[remus]

Surely it makes sense that pieces of rock that only have small holds on don’t have runner placements either?

I think that's part of it, but I don't think it explains the whole gap. There's hundreds of 9as about these days, I guess at least a few of them could go on trad if people were interested.

[galpinos]

I hadn't twigged they were the same Nadine Wallner. I knew she climbed but not at that level. She was over in the Peak this summer*. Her Instagram comment make my eyes bleed with the random capitals though....

*weidly it looked from her 'gram that she didn't onsight London Wall which for someone of her pedigree seemed surprising....

[UnkArl]

She was on London Wall for a photo shoot, she went for it as her warm-up and it wasn’t in the best of conditions.

[Ged]

Anyway, all this made me reflect on how rare naturally protected routes with high pure difficulty are. I mean, 8b+ is a very pedestrian grade.

Funny isn't it. The hardest trad (say Tribe) is at a level of difficulty that was first established 30 years ago. To me it suggests that the people at the top of sport climbing just aren't that interested in trad (which is fair enough). You can't help but think that if Ondra/Megos/Stefano turned their hand to a bit of trad the top level would go up pretty sharply (e.g. Megos' flash of The Path which is 8b+ on trad).

And Ondra's fairly casual onsight first ascent of that 7c on gear near the end of the Change film.  Actually he falls off and decks near the start, but still.  It seems that when he does trad climb, it's fairly near the top standard without really trying too hard (didn't he flash a bunch of E7's in the peak?).

[galpinos]

She was on London Wall for a photo shoot, she went for it as her warm-up and it wasn’t in the best of conditions.

That makes sense of it. Doesn't excuse her random capitalisation though.....

[cheque]

She was on London Wall for a photo shoot, she went for it as her warm-up and it wasn’t in the best of conditions.

Sounds like she’s excuses world champion too. 

[teestub]

And Ondra's fairly casual onsight first ascent of that 7c on gear near the end of the Change film.  Actually he falls off and decks near the start, but still.

😂 I’m not an expert in these matters by any stretch, but I think that invalidates the onsight!

[teestub]

That makes sense of it. Doesn't excuse her random capitalisation though.....

Looks like a graphical representation of how one talks after too much over-caffeinated sugary drink company 😄

[SA Chris]

And Ondra's fairly casual onsight first ascent of that 7c on gear near the end of the Change film.  Actually he falls off and decks near the start, but still.

😂 I’m not an expert in these matters by any stretch, but I think that invalidates the onsight!

Only if he weighted the gear, clean deckout is the same as downclimbing or jumping down

[cheque]

But way cooler. 

[Ged]

And Ondra's fairly casual onsight first ascent of that 7c on gear near the end of the Change film.  Actually he falls off and decks near the start, but still.

😂 I’m not an expert in these matters by any stretch, but I think that invalidates the onsight!

Hence my last sentence.

Point is, he doesn't seem to think much of going for it up a 7c new route on small cams

[andy popp]

Not watched it yet, but the latest episode in Seb Bouin's vintage rock tour series - Cimai:

[Fiend]

Point is, he doesn't seem to think much of going for it up a 7c new route on small cams

I don't think much of it going for a F5c new route on small cams, which relatively and proportionately indicates the French vs. trad grading system seems to be working spot on.

(Talking of 5c climbing on small cams, I finally got around to do the Ged photo-tick in the Lakes Eastern Crags guide after seeing it for many years i.e. Top Gear, and found the Shield section both fairly amenable and bloody brilliant, although I shat myself in the "high chance of breaking legs on ledge below" groove section just before that).


Also....

Surely it makes sense that pieces of rock that only have small holds on don’t have runner placements either?

I think that's part of it, but I don't think it explains the whole gap. There's hundreds of 9as about these days, I guess at least a few of them could go on trad if people were interested.

....I think this discussion definitely has some mileage 

[jwi]

A lot of steep and featured tufa routes are most definitely possible to climb on gear. For instance, Coliseum in Rodellar is regularly done on trad gear by locals, which made me considered that if you accept such long runouts with gear in such questionable rock many other routes in the sector are surely at least as well protected as Coliseum. Especially routes which are more endurance-based in character where the climber with a bit of margin and endless stamina surely can downclimb out of trouble if it arises.

Cleaning and securing some key holds with sika on steep featured limestone is already a nightmare with a drill in hand. Without.... I can see that it will never take hold...

[jwi]

Not watched it yet, but the latest episode in Seb Bouin's vintage rock tour series - Cimai:

It is very good, of course!

[andy popp]

Not watched it yet, but the latest episode in Seb Bouin's vintage rock tour series - Cimai:

It is very good, of course!

There's a reaon I could post in quality without having watched it.

[duncan]

Another goodie. Pschitt's fingers 

Cimaï looks great. I presume the 6s and 7s are nails and I'd get totally spanked?

[SA Chris]

I know Black Bean is "only" 8b, but some of those runouts doing it on gear look pretty big. Maybe Ceuse rock is a bit more solid and accepts gear a bit more readily than Rodellar?

[jwi]

I know Black Bean is "only" 8b

8b/b+. At least that is what I told myself. I think there are quite a lot of routes in Rodellar that has more gear than Black Bean. I would not like to fall on the cams Arnaud put between the tufas on the first pitch. The gear (far) below the crux must otoh be completely bomber.