[Will Hunt]

On the contrary, I think the implication is that some slack should be cut for the obvious poor behaviour on show in the video.

[Fultonius]

On the contrary, I think the implication is that some slack should be cut for the obvious poor behaviour on show in the video.

100% this.

[Dingdong]

Being neurodivergent is not a catch all phrase through, there is obviously a whole spectrum of neurodiversity. I think it’s ok to cut him some slack but also gently message him and make it clear that climbing on soaking grit isn’t on, what he does with that info is up to him. Also I’m not a big fan of diagnosis via Instagram 

[teestub]

Being neurodivergent is not a catch all phrase through

Isn’t it literally a catch all phrase?

[SA Chris]

On the contrary, I think the implication is that some slack should be cut for the obvious poor behaviour on show in the video.

100% this.

Exactly my implication. As a parent of a neurodivergent child I find stone's assumption slightly abhorrent.

[Dingdong]

Being neurodivergent is not a catch all phrase through

Isn’t it literally a catch all phrase?

Sorry you’re right it literally is, what I meant is that we shouldn’t just assume if he’s neurodivergent or that just because he is he deserves some special treatment because there is a whole spectrum of neurodiversity. 

[SA Chris]

Being neurodivergent is not a catch all phrase through

Isn’t it literally a catch all phrase?

I think ding dong means it doesn't clearly define any specific condition. It's more of an umbrella term to cover a range of conditions, some of which overlap. edit - ding dong replied himself. I just think some tolerance should be accommodated before an open flogging

[cowboyhat]

Neuro what now?

Dress it up all you like but isn't he just a fucking bellend?

[Dingdong]

Neuro what now?

Dress it up all you like but isn't he just a fucking bellend?

Neurodiversity is an umbrella term that covers things such as autism, intellectual disability, ADHD, dyslexia, dyscalculia, Epilepsy among other neurology disorders.

What people are saying is that he may have one of these and so we shouldn’t be quick to flog him online. Even if you deem his actions to be bellend-ish

[stone]

Like I said, many people are simply unaware that climbing on wet grit damages the rock.

Spread the word about that.

I'm seeing someone who seems to have inadvertently blundered in that regard due to a lack of knowledge about rock fragility (as was extremely widespread even amongst elite "Sheffield scene" types not many years ago). Then all of the other snide comments about stuff totally irrelevant to that get a cloak of respectability because they are targeting a misdoer.

[Paul B]

Like I said, many people are simply unaware that climbing on wet grit damages the rock.

Spread the word about that.

When you said this in response to my post a few weeks ago I was pretty stunned. I'm not really sure how you'd have missed this.

[PeteHukb]

For me, watching it, I find myself wondering if he's neurodivergent. So do what you will with that.

Agree..

I read you comments with similar distaste to how I would if you had said something like, "I find myself wondering if he's homosexual".

It seems to imply that if he were neurodivergent, he should be less proud to express his style, and should cower away and leave youtube to those with taste that conforms to yours.

I hesitated to write what I did, as I wondered whether it would attract criticism for either armchair diagnosis (fair) or for seeming to be a kind of insult veiled in scientific language. (Then the whole Israel-Palestine controversy swooped in and rescued me, or so I thought!) However I can see that writing it without further comment also left open the possibility of exactly the sort of misinterpretation that you've made.

As the father of a six year-old who may well turn out to be neurodivergent (which doesn't make me immune to criticism in this area, of course), let me try to assure you that my only intention was to point out another possible explanation for his whole "persona", in an effort to deter unnecessary meanness by others. (That's not to say no-one should point out that he shouldn't climb wet rock, it's the braggadocio and the catchphrases that might also have been targeted.)

Then of course I tied myself up in knots wondering whether it was okay to find his behaviour/catchphrases amusing or whether it made me a bully. Or alternatively whether I was dehumanising neurodivergent people by trying too hard to explain their behaviour rather than just dealing with them as people (whatever that means).

Anyway I thought it was an interesting angle to add the whole recent bullying chat on here. Maybe, if you care about other humans at all, don't be mean to them (or about them) unless you're really, really sure they're a genuine bell-end

[SamT]

Can neurodivergent people also be complete bell ends... 

[PeteHukb]

Valid question. I'm gonna say yes, but I'm less confident in my ability to interpret their intentions and awareness.

[Fiend]

Can neurodivergent people also be complete bell ends... 

Hell yeah 

In general it can be an explanation / reason.....not an excuse.

[stone]

Maybe, if you care about other humans at all, don't be mean to them (or about them) unless you're really, really sure they're a genuine bell-end

If someone is doing harm, stand up against them.

If not, show them some respect and courtesy.

End of IMO.

[kac]

Well said stone and Pete. Obviously the behaviour needs calling out but i'm a little surprised our bullying expert thinks the insults and mocking are fine. Perhaps I'm being over sensitive as the parent of a neurodivergent child who is worried he will be bullied for being different.

[Dingdong]

Well said stone and Pete. Obviously the behaviour needs calling out but i'm a little surprised our bullying expert thinks the insults and mocking are fine. Perhaps I'm being over sensitive as the parent of a neurodivergent child who is worried he will be bullied for being different.

Who said insults and mocking are fine? I’m pretty sure everyone here is saying the opposite?

[kac]

Has he not been called a bell end by quite a few people and cowboyhat seems to be saying thats fine even if he is neurodivergent. Fiend our bullying expert seems to have wadded cowboyhat for this view. Unless he has wadded him for another comment in which case apologies to fiend. You had some good comments ding dong.

[stone]

Like I said, many people are simply unaware that climbing on wet grit damages the rock.

Spread the word about that.

When you said this in response to my post a few weeks ago I was pretty stunned. I'm not really sure how you'd have missed this.

I personally first found out by watching BBC TV "Countryfile" when Shauna Coxsey was featured on it. They were planning on showing bouldering at Stanage Plantation I think but it was damp and she said grit is fragile when damp and so she wasn't going to climb.

I'm sure I've seen top boulders (ie well up Remus's list) on damp grit after 2010.

[Fiend]

Has he not been called a bell end by quite a few people and cowboyhat seems to be saying thats fine even if he is neurodivergent. Fiend our bullying expert seems to have wadded cowboyhat for this view. Unless he has wadded him for another comment in which case apologies to fiend. You had some good comments ding dong.

Your "our bullying expert" comment isn't helpful is it. If you want to refute the thread I posted about banter vs bully then you know exactly where to do it, and you can leave your assessment of me out of it.

Yes I wadded cowboyhat because my impression of the video from the scarce seconds I was able to sit through - and the reports of the content and behaviour on here - was that it was dire and the person involved did indeed come across as a bellend.

I know full well what it is like to be neurodivergent and to be bullied for being neurodivergent (and having seen a lot in other people's lifetime experiences too). I also know that it's not necessarily a great excuse to act like a bellend in a public video that from the sounds of it (100k insta followers) is part of general self-promotion of the person's behaviour. I certainly don't think the neurodivergence itself should be slagged off and of course that leads to more nuances as to where inadvertant psychological issues end and where chosen public behaviour and public promotion begin...

[stone]

I think the huge problem is the conflation between objecting to something that needs to stop so as to preserve the rock (ie climbing on wet grit) and people simply not finding the guy's style to their taste.

Direct, private, courteous, communication is the way to let him know about wet grit preservation.

Putting your own info out there is the way to educate wider about wet grit preservation (eg end your own videos with a word saying how you waited until all was dry to preserve the rock or whatever).

If you don't like his style, then there are zillions of quiet, understated, bouldering youtubers to watch. Just move on to one of them.

Regarding the whole neurodivergence discussion, my impression is that if someone has a clear medicalised condition  (eg Down's syndrome) then almost everyone will be kind and accommodating towards them. If someone is judged as having "no excuse" then supposedly it is OK to be utterly vile towards them just for harmlessly being themselves. So this whole thing of endevouring to discern whether someone eg has some very slight manic grandiosity (so should be given slack) or "no excuse" and so should be subject to a "flogging" -that's what sickens me.

[ferret]

Direct, private, courteous, communication is the way to let him know about wet grit preservation.

I'd agree, I had a similar(ish) situation with a local mtb trail I maintain and a very well known YouTuber. I contacted him directly and had a very amicable discussion which opened his eyes to being responsible about certain content.

I guess in this situation the response might not be so positive with the guy seeming potentially challenged but if it doesn't stick it isn't gonna stick with direct confrontation either

[kac]

Apologies for mentioning you fiend. I did so because I pretty much agree with your previous comments regarding bullying v banter. I think that some of the comments on this fella go beyond banter and I don't  think live up to the standards you suggest. I don't like online assessments either which is why I wouldn't be calling him a bell end. Don't climb on wet rock is what needs to be said.

[Will Hunt]

Don't climb on wet rock is what needs to be said.

Also, don't fabricate an ascent of a problem(s) which you haven't climbed and then claim to have climbed said problems.