[r-man]

So from my limited knowledge of human physiology (correct me if I'm wrong)...

When you are bouldering and you get knackered, your tendons start taking the load because your muscles are pooped. Also when you hold things at full lock, your muscles are fully extended and the load transfers again to tendons. This can lead to or exacerbate injury.

But what about when you get really pumped and you can't close your fingers anymore? Are your muscles taking the load, but just gradually releasing because they are pumped, or are your muscles so knackered that your tendons take the load?

I'm guessing the former, as it's only when I try hard on boulder problems that my elbow starts letting me know it's unhappy. When I'm pumped it seems to be fine. This is only on traverses at the moment, so I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to concentrate on sport routes for a while to let my tendon fully recover.

Any thoughts on any of this anyone?

[ned]

I might be as wrong, but:

Tendons attach muscle to bone. Therefore if a muscle is "taking a load" then the tendon that attaches it to the bone is taking the same load.

If the muscles are fully extended then the load is transferred to the ligaments (join bone to bone) and/or the small muscles that stabalise the joint, rather than the tendons (as the muscle is not loaded so the tendons will not be loaded).

Are your muscles taking the load, but just gradually releasing because they are pumped

Yes. It would be impossible for the tendons to be loaded without the muscles that pull them being loaded as well.

[account_inactive]

So from my limited knowledge of human physiology (correct me if I'm wrong)...

When you are bouldering and you get knackered, your tendons start taking the load because your muscles are pooped. Also when you hold things at full lock, your muscles are fully extended and the load transfers again to tendons. This can lead to or exacerbate injury.

But what about when you get really pumped and you can't close your fingers anymore? Are your muscles taking the load, but just gradually releasing because they are pumped, or are your muscles so knackered that your tendons take the load?

I'm guessing the former, as it's only when I try hard on boulder problems that my elbow starts letting me know it's unhappy. When I'm pumped it seems to be fine. This is only on traverses at the moment, so I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to concentrate on sport routes for a while to let my tendon fully recover.

Any thoughts on any of this anyone?

Too much to correct.  Get a physiology text book

[r-man]

Too much to correct. Get a physiology text book

 
Oh come on, help me out here! I realise it was mostly just waffle, but I'm pretty sure cause and effect are right - when you're knackered your tendons get damaged easily. Is this just because tendons are tired too, or is there (as I'm sure I've been led to believe) a reason that has to do with muscles and physiology and stuff?

And obviously when you're locked off the working muscles are fully contracted, not extended. That was just a mistake. The rest is ignorance! Layman's guide to tendons and muscles anyone?

[nik at work]

You seriously do not want a detailed discussion of the whens whys and wherefores of tendon injury.

Instead know that if it feels tweaky its time to stop and do something else less boring instead, and if it goes twang then it's too late.

Revel in your blissful ignorance of the workings of the human body, god knows I wish I'd done that...

[saltbeef]

my tendons are tired.

[r-man]

Hey saltbeef, you said this a while ago:

stop when your fresh. (i nver do this hence...) otherwise you'll be just slumping onto your tendons.

can you explain the slumping onto your tendons bit?

[Paz]

Too much to correct. Get a physiology text book

 
Oh come on, help me out here! I realise it was mostly just waffle, but I'm pretty sure cause and effect are right - when you're knackered your tendons get damaged easily. Is this just because tendons are tired too, or is there (as I'm sure I've been led to believe) a reason that has to do with muscles and physiology and stuff?

And obviously when you're locked off the working muscles are fully contracted, not extended. That was just a mistake. The rest is ignorance! Layman's guide to tendons and muscles anyone?

I can't really be arsed with that academic approach to physiology, but it's useful if you've read a bit when you start to twig `oh that's what's going on' when something similar happens to you in your climbing or you see something in someone elses.  But we also have more knowledge in the climbing world than that.   Or at least I think I do.

So I'm stretching my neck out (like the Rich Simpson article) doing a bit of interdisciplinarary speculation here but I think yeah you're right, your tendons are getting tired.  Damaged even, but that's part of training - they get stronger with rest (called supercompensation or hypertrophy, or that might only apply to muscles).  The one thing that doesn't square is the getting pumped bit.  If you're trying to test or train endurance you shouldn't really be working your tendons into the ground, you should just be getting pumped, and you should ideally fail because of this before you twang your tendons.  Doing strength or power stuff can still produce what feels like a pump but it's not (e.g. because you've only done 3 moves) and that will work your tendons more.  That's being powered out or not feeling like you have as much `strength'.  You're supposed to stop when you feel strong, but most of us don't always.  So if your tendons start hurting then you've had too many goes or done too much training, and it's time to stop isn't it.  You'll be able to keep going for longer as you do more sessions.  The catch is when you're tired (e.g. because you're pumped after 20 moves) you're vulnerable to injury (e.g.from a poweful move) because precision and technique goes for example but also blatanty because you're just beasted.  I haven't read this in any articles (they tell you to stop already) In which case you are knackered and it's time for a beer.

If you're going to do sport routes to rest then I'd get easier mileage in(*), or do some easy angled sport routes or trad routes.  
(*) Easier fast redpoints.  If you can push yourself enough on hard enough routes onsighting can be a good way to fuck your self as you don't know the sequence, the route and because (as above) you're tired.  

P.S.  The one thing that improved my elbow aches was rest, posture and glucosamine.   That's three, I know.