[Johnny Brown]

Likewise, I thought fatherhood might have curtailed this sort of thing!

[Will Hunt]

It feels like the end of an era. If the Spirit of the G has been exorcised from Danny, does that mean he now really isn't a follower of the G? I can't believe it's over.

[danm]

Some weird chemicals must be leaching into the water supply on that part of the Welsh coast, resulting in a special type of genius with a hint of madness and/or obsession. Think about it. Moffatt, Pollitt, Doyle & the Cattell's. Outliers all of them, and the world a better place for it.

[peewee]

Clearly the Welsh 2 week Firebreak has done funny things to them! Great watch.

[Bradders]

Likewise, I thought fatherhood might have curtailed this sort of thing!

My favourite bit was at the end when Doylo's partner walks in and just goes "what the fuck is going on"

[AMorris]

The world is truly ending now that Danny has left the fold. He must've had a reflective lockdown 

[Doylo]

The world is truly ending now that Danny has left the fold. He must've had a reflective lockdown 

To clarify although he is more torn about it now he still loves the G. He initially told me to take the G is a liar out but I explained it was for the exorcism narrative and the change in tone at that moment was important. Some different words may have worked but it went in as initially planned. He always goes on about G being witnessed getting high on Brandenburg.

[Johnny Brown]

He always goes on about G being witnessed getting high on Brandenburg.

Do you know who the supposed witness was as the guy I'd been told was there said he'd seen nothing of the sort?

[Doylo]

He always goes on about G being witnessed getting high on Brandenburg.

Do you know who the supposed witness was as the guy I'd been told was there said he'd seen nothing of the sort?

Bit hazy. I remember Ben Pritch saying he looked good on it or something similar, think on here?  Danny reckons it was said G was like a lizard on it    Just blends into one all this shit over the years I think. Hard to recall specifics and cba trawling thought old shit.

[Johnny Brown]

Yeah it was Pritch I asked.

[Doylo]

Not like he claimed that anyway.

[Johnny Brown]

Here we go, I've searched the forum for 'Brandenburg' and this post from Dense of all people would seem to be the source: 

don't really want to speak for benpritch but i think he's filming in the valley at the moment. ben saw john working brandenburg gates and said he moved up the rock like a gecko and he couldn't really believe what he was seeing. his impression of john climbing it is fantastic, especially if you've both had a few beers.

Similar from, Nigel, dave and Panton respectively. Be interesting if they can remember their sources:

Yes Gaskins has repeated Hubble with ease during visits to try his Tor project. Quite a few people have seen him do this!

You seem to be conveniently ignoring the fact that gaskins is regularly witnessed climbing very hard things, like pissing up hubble when working the 9a+/9b brandenburg gate project, and the 9a+ was a project of his for years. Theres absolutley no reason to treat the lack of a belayer as anything other than an amusing curiosity, unless you've got some kind of irrational dislike of him. theres no track record of gaskins being anything less than honest.

Respect is earned by demonstrating your character and your ability. John has done this time and time again, either on film or in front of other 'respected' witnesses. Thus John has respect.

It's somewhat amazing in hindsight to read some of the spirited defence of the G from the forum faithful at the time, most of this from at this thread for instance. All seems to be second hand despite the fervour.

[Nutty]

benpritch does say he saw Gaskins on Brandenbrug here:

ok, just to re-iterate - I saw John Gaskins climbing on Brandenburg Gate. He was doing all the moves, some links etc. He looked like he could do it. Brandenburg Gate makes Hubble look like a juggy warm up. I have seen a lot of good climbers climbing but i have never seen anything like that before.

and that he was doing very well on it (and Rich Heap was also there) here:

I may well have some age related mental problems but I never said he was pissing anything. He was definitely trying really hard , but at the same time doing very well. I will talk to Rich Heap who was there also and see if he can corroborate my story although he may well be as chronologically challenged as me. What's the story you have heard from 'elsewhere"?

[Will Hunt]

People seem to make the mistake of seeking an absolute answer to The Question Of The G. Either that he was the best climber who ever lived who did everything that he said he did, or that he was a complete fraud who didn't do anything that he claimed to have done without reliable witnesses.

The truth is probably somewhere in between and we're never going to know with certainty what the truth is. He was definitely incredibly strong and incredibly capable. The balance of evidence tends to point to him also having told porkies about some of his ascents. This shouldn't be a surprise really. People don't fall into simple categories of Good and Evil - they're complex individuals with complex motivations and moods.
There are interesting examples of people with lots of well-documented hard things under their belt who have been caught out lying about something that they could have done. John might have been one of those people, who just stretched the bounds of credibility a little too far.

[Johnny Brown]

Ah yeah there's a few witness statements on that interview thread. Likewise here. But it seems to be fairly bland witness statements - doing some moves - to what people then circulated about pissing Hubble etc. As Will said I think we'd all like it to be black and white - either he was shit or the greatest, rather than very very good but a liar. Likewise we all know Simpson was good in the School.

[Doylo]

People seem to make the mistake of seeking an absolute answer to The Question Of The G. Either  that he was the best climber who ever lived who did everything that he said he did, or that he was a complete fraud who didn't do anything that he claimed to have done without reliable witnesses.

The truth is probably somewhere in between and we're never going to know with certainty what the truth is. He was definitely incredibly strong and incredibly capable. The balance of evidence tends to point to him also having told porkies about some of his ascents. This shouldn't be a surprise really. People don't fall into simple categories of Good and Evil - they're complex individuals with complex motivations and moods.
There are interesting examples of people with lots of well-documented hard things under their belt who have been caught out lying about something that they could have done. John might have been one of those people, who just stretched the bounds of credibility a little too far.

Ye. The thing is about liars in climbing or otherwise is there’s no rule book as it’s complex human behaviour. It ranges from someone who lies once in their whole life to a serial liar who does it every day. The problem for anyone who seems ‘fishy’ is that more often or not everything is wiped out as no one can know what’s been done and what hasn’t. Even if they’ve actually climbed a lot of it once the credibility’s gone everything’s in question. I find the Paul Robinson case interesting, a lot of people over the pond don’t believe he did Lucid Dreaming despite years and years of hard ascents on video and obvious world class ability. Yet they don’t believe this one ascent due to the suspicious circumstances.

[AMorris]

Cheers for the clarification Doylo, his faith is being tested then!

I have kind of come to the conclusion that he was extremely strong in his style, but may have told a few "stretched truths" that got away from him. I actually don't doubt things like Il Pirata and Shadowplay as much as some, hold breakages on SP could account for it's modern impossibility, it's a snappy roof after all. But I do have a nag at the back of my mind that the pill box problem could have been one of those "oh that one? Yeah I did that one, was quite similar to a board problem of mine. 8A+ I thought.", since no one seems to be able to confirm it as a witness. I don't know, I barely care any more!

The myth of him is still a hero of mine, and something that I use to fuel my training, if less so the man.

[SA Chris]

Disappointed this didn't make it into the clip

[gme]

Cheers for the clarification Doylo, his faith is being tested then!

I have kind of come to the conclusion that he was extremely strong in his style, but may have told a few "stretched truths" that got away from him. I actually don't doubt things like Il Pirata and Shadowplay as much as some, hold breakages on SP could account for it's modern impossibility, it's a snappy roof after all. But I do have a nag at the back of my mind that the pill box problem could have been one of those "oh that one? Yeah I did that one, was quite similar to a board problem of mine. 8A+ I thought.", since no one seems to be able to confirm it as a witness. I don't know, I barely care any more!

The myth of him is still a hero of mine, and something that I use to fuel my training, if less so the man.

Have any of the new crop of strong kids tried the pill box problem. Looks the type of thing that would suit the new school.

[Doylo]

Not yet. Ryan Pasquill looked pretty good on it a while ago though- Strong fingers and lanky. Danny thinks it’s harder now cos people stand on the handholds on the other problems and they’re even more slippy.

[andy popp]

Accepting there isn't going to be an answer, what's the view on Walk Away SS? I never see it brought into these debates about the G.

[JamieG]

I agree Andy, we should all just walk away . . .

[AMorris]

Accepting there isn't going to be an answer, what's the view on Walk Away SS? I never see it brought into these debates about the G.

Greg seems happy with it, sounds good enough for me

[r-man]

[andy popp]

Several thoughts:

God knows I can be what many would see as pretentious, but the script for this was a terrible load of old bollocks. Couldn't stand the narrator either.

The comparison between John and Eric Gill is completely tendentious; beyond sharing a surname and some kind of relationship with stone (to which they related in completely different ways) there is nothing that links them.

Finally, I think the comparison, made in the way it is here, is deeply insulting to John Gill. Eric Gill was a paedophile who abused two of his three daughters. I am not arguing Gill's work should be censored, I've seen and photographed it at the Midland Hotel in Morecambe, where I believe it should remain, as it should in other public places, such as on Broadcasting House. But Gill's sexuality was so deeply integrated into his life, practices, and work - much of which is erotic and includes many nude images of his underage daughters - that it is impossible to separate out and set to one side as unimportant to our reception of the work. The film invites a comparison of the practices of John Gill the climber and of Eric Gill the artist but in doing so also completely elides a central feature of the latter's practice (in this respect it is interesting that the film focuses entirely on Gill's work in typeface, obviously the most neutral facet of his work). The film even goes so far as to invoke a kind of brotherhood between them, calling them unrelated twins, but to what ends? It's cheap and shoddy.