[Fiend]

I might say some nice things about Remus in the hope that he keeps me in his list at 8C... Still got an ego... Only chance of the grade etc

I reckon he can definitely keep you on, maybe as a Now Obsolute Beta ascent / variant 

[yetix]

But it's not obsolete now in that style, if Ben stays on at 8C anyone else willing to do the same deserves to go on imo.

[monkoffunk]

But it's not obsolete now in that style, if Ben stays on at 8C anyone else willing to do the same deserves to go on imo.

I think things can exist in a time and when they evolve you can’t go back. Like if a new hold naturally appears on a problem due to a break it doesn’t make sense for future ascentionists to eliminate just for the grade. One could for the fun or interest or whatever, I’m keen to climb a local problem with the old now obsolete beta for that reason, but I won’t claim a big grade for bad beta. Doesn’t invalidate the effort or tick when the beta was good before the change.

[yetix]

But it began life as an eliminate, so can remain an eliminate...

[spidermonkey09]

There was a logic behind the eliminate before though, namely to avoid one hold that was largely made of resin. Now that hold has gone, the premise of the eliminate is defunct. Its now avoiding a hold just like all the others, there would be no rationale for avoiding it other than to specifically reclimb Ben's sequence. Its obsolete, effectively.

Most other eliminates would tend to avoid big features (the jug, the shelf, the good rail etc etc) to make it harder. Or in the recent case of Jason's Roof, the big foot block at the start. Imagine a Jason's eliminate that randomly eliminates one of  the RH crimps in the roof. Don't think it would catch on, even if it can be said to 'exist' in a metaphysical sense.

[36chambers]

the simple solution is just to whack on some resin when gunning for the 8C version and then knock off it at the end of each session

[Tony]

There was a logic behind the eliminate … Don't think it would catch on

As indicated by my quote, you conflate two related but different things: (aesthetic) logic and popularity.

The former is entirely subjective and one eliminate is really about as objectively justifiable as any other. Which is to say, not at all.

The latter is objectively measurable but subject to the whims of human nature. Which, these days, means it depends if someone puts up a sexy vid on Insta.

[yetix]

There was a logic behind the eliminate before though, namely to avoid one hold that was largely made of resin. Now that hold has gone, the premise of the eliminate is defunct. Its now avoiding a hold just like all the others, there would be no rationale for avoiding it other than to specifically reclimb Ben's sequence. Its obsolete, effectively.

Most other eliminates would tend to avoid big features (the jug, the shelf, the good rail etc etc) to make it harder. Or in the recent case of Jason's Roof, the big foot block at the start. Imagine a Jason's eliminate that randomly eliminates one of  the RH crimps in the roof. Don't think it would catch on, even if it can be said to 'exist' in a metaphysical sense.

Can't say I or the many people I've spoken to about this elsewhere agree with that, but will leave ukb to it

[36chambers]

But it's not obsolete now in that style, if Ben stays on at 8C anyone else willing to do the same deserves to go on imo.

I agree with this. Not to mention that it might not even be an 8C until it's been confirmed with some repeats. (Not trying to suggest it is misgraded, just that grades are a consensus )

[spidermonkey09]

As indicated by my quote, you conflate two related but different things: (aesthetic) logic and popularity.

The former is entirely subjective and one eliminate is really about as objectively justifiable as any other. Which is to say, not at all.

The latter is objectively measurable but subject to the whims of human nature. Which, these days, means it depends if someone puts up a sexy vid on Insta.

True. I guess I don't think all eliminates are created equal, but as you say thats a subjective measure.

I think the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. I can't see it being very likely at all that people will choose to repeat Ben's version given that the option to repeat the whole line, bottom to top, using all the available holds, where there is no coherent reason to avoid any of those holds, exists. I look forward to someone doing it tomorrow and proving me wrong!

[Fultonius]

I'm not sure if I missed this being stated explicitly, but it does seem implied.

What is the easiest line/method in the current state? Would it be the original beta using what's left of the crumbled/resin hold (and hence the eliminate is a bit whack), or is Ben's method now not actually just going to be the easiest way up?

[yetix]

Using the remains of the hold (2finger edge) makes the move of the crouch to the normal finish easier than how Ben did it (when eliminating, but harder than how people who used the resin hold before it was smashed off) and also offers something to stand onto at the top as it helps for getting established on the weird undercut I think. I think earlier in the thread Panton suggested it might be 8B+ with everything.

[Fultonius]

Cheers, makes sense.

[abarro81]

I'm with spider monkey, eliminating resin makes some vague sense. Now it would just be #biggradesforbadbeta

[yetix]

Then as 36 said it can't be confirmed at 8C...

[jakaitch]

Not sure if this is a joke or Im a moron (looks pretty real?)

https://imgur.com/a/2XhkFC8

[Will Hunt]

Please let this not be a joke 

[Duma]

OMG that's brilliant