[Johnny Brown]

Me, I'd bin UK tech grades completely.

Yeah! Archangel E3 V0 4+

Come on then Johnny, lets move it along. What 7b's have you done, I want to be a 7b climber too!

I think you know the big one...


Last word on the subject from Big Ron:

"At 6c and 7a you don't use smaller holds as such; you only marshall more of them, into more intricate sequences."

[Ru]

Yeah! Archangel E3 V0 4+

Apart from the fact that it's unncessary to have V grades and font grades together, and the fact that Archangel is about 5+ not 4+ I don't really have a problem with that. :wink:

[Andy Harris]

Sorry but I don't seem to be able to change my username on the profile section. It appears to be fixed. Any suggestions or will have to set up a new profile?
1st this is Andy Harris not the other Andy H.

I'm taking by the multitude of replies and possibly my poor use of English and hastily written words that I have something against slabs, long problems, people who do not climb hard etc. I can assure you this is not true and apologise to anyone who may have got that impression. I’m quite fond of all the above.

Nice to hear that Simon thinks in british technical then translates it, it's the only way I can do it.

The following might be a bit disjointed I've written it over the past day or 2 but hopefully it gets across my view. Besides I’ve got to pick my girlfriend up from the airport.

I was in Font last week and as usual I went to look at Golden Feet which has never ceased to amaze me at how holdless it is. 10 years later and many of the harder problems seem a lot easier but this stays the same. For me this would have to lie in the 7b range and at or close to the limit in this type of style (It's almost holdless). Is there anything of a technical grit nature as hard as this? I remember once recounting to Johnny the outrageous nature of this problem and he was sure it would be OK and quoted climbs on slate and grit but having seen a number of these are they really in the same league? For instance if you look at the number of repeats a problem like this gets against repeats of grit desperates there would appear to be a pretty big gap.
What are the routes that don’t get a roasting (Sampson, Screaming Dream, Toy Boy, Careless Torque, Slingshot) and these probably have the hardest moves 7a/b.

Are those at the top really any stronger/better than they were say 10 years ago. I’m not so sure myself. The hard font slabs/walls were all done 10+ years ago. The fact of quotes along the line of “grades have been kept low by…” assumes climbers these days are much better than those of 10-15 years ago. And whilst for sure standards among the bouldering community have risen massively (there weren’t many people climbing Font 7c+ 10 years ago and now every man and his dog is romping 8a’s) I don’t see many at or above the level set by Moffat, Moon, Dawes, Le Menestrel, Godoffe all those years ago (particularly in the  UK). In addition climbers have developed far better technique (in general) and are just much better climbers.

Which brings me onto the heel. Was a bit of a problem for Achilles but for climbers its the best invention in recent years. Pioneered by Mr McClure the heel has taken some big scalps (Brad Pitt) and made many problems considerably easier. I don’t advocate it but that’s because I’ve knackered both knees in attempts to put more and more weight on it. A guy at Burbage strained his bum today from over enthusiastic heel useage. Climbing at the Foundry 10 years ago we all used to take the mick out of Mike Lee for using his heels but look what it got him up, now we’re all at it.

The reason for quoting the problems I did was that this is an area I am familiar with and wouldn't like to speculate on things I do not know well (something rather common on forums). I could have equally quoted numerous grit desparates.

I’d have to object to the suggestion that limestone climbers are untechnical and incapable of delicate moves. Sure you always here about climber X falling off a 5a slab / rockover. Climbing on limestone is really technical, poor polished footholds, body tension etc. That’s why a lot of climbers hate venues like Stoney and the Tor, it’s not all about finger strength & power. In some cases its probably more technical than grit. In addition you only have to look at most of the climbers who have pushed grit standards in the past 10 years or so. Bentley, Barker etc are all to be found at home on the white stuff and somewhat bumpy.

[Bubba]

Sorry but I don't seem to be able to change my username on the profile section. It appears to be fixed. Any suggestions or will have to set up a new profile?
1st this is Andy Harris not the other Andy H.

I have to change it for you - just let me know what name you'd like.

[Andy Harris]

Please change to Andy Harris then the other Andy H can stay as he is.

cheers

[Bubba]

Sorted.

[Johnny Brown]

I was in Font last week and as usual I went to look at Golden Feet which has never ceased to amaze me at how holdless it is. 10 years later and many of the harder problems seem a lot easier but this stays the same. For me this would have to lie in the 7b range and at or close to the limit in this type of style (It's almost holdless).

Agreed. Amazing...

Is there anything of a technical grit nature as hard as this?

Haven't found anything yet...
Angel's Share is similarly holdless but not as steep. Were it at ground level I'd guess 7c+? Unfortunately there don't seem to be any other really hard grit slabs.

I remember once recounting to Johnny the outrageous nature of this problem and he was sure it would be OK and quoted climbs on slate and grit but having seen a number of these are they really in the same league?

Will Perrin did the Medium at 16, I think in a couple of days. A few years later Duel took him considerably longer...

What are the routes that don’t get a roasting (Sampson, Screaming Dream, Toy Boy, Careless Torque, Slingshot) and these probably have the hardest moves 7a/b.

You seem to be agreeing with me :shock: Toy Boy and Screaming dream I'd guess about 7c+, ie hard 7a. Careless torque and Slingshot 8aish, ie 'easy' 7b. How come the U-turn? And these are all problems which will yield to power as much as technique.

Are those at the top really any stronger/better than they were say 10 years ago. I’m not so sure myself. The hard font slabs/walls were all done 10+ years ago.

I think definitely stronger (Gaskins, Smith etc) but not 'better'. Certainly Dawes' and Allen's standard for UK slab climbing has not really been surpassed.

In addition climbers have developed far better technique (in general) and are just much better climbers.

...but only for steep rock. Are slabs just unfashionable? Or have the limits been reached. Or are we awaiting a leap forward in boot technology?

[r-man]

Is there anything of a technical grit nature as hard as this?

Found this on the other forum. Quarried grit, but it is grit...

A certain infamous (and smelly) quarry near Preston is home to the two most amazing unclimbed slab lines. The easier of the two is probably about font 8b(+) or E8 7b.

 :shock:

Found some more. All this was posted around 2002.

The slab is about 7-8 metres high with a good landing ( if a bit slopy) - its somewhere between a boulder problem and a route. A combination of friction and edging with a reasonable dose of standing on nothings!
I think quite close is probably an overstatement. I have done all the moves on a rope but I have never linked more than two of them! It is really on/off and every move has to be super precise and controlled. The crux section is the middle four or five moves. Super hard. I would say each of the crux moves is possibly English 7b. As a route it would probably warrant E8 7b - with the E8 being for effort (minimal danger). A font grade of 8b has been suggested by someone.
I haven't tried the central line yet - but it looks harder!

 :shock:

[Andy F]

Is there anything of a technical grit nature as hard as this?

Monoblock

Are those at the top really any stronger/better than they were say 10 years ago. I'm not so sure myself. The hard font slabs/walls were all done 10+ years ago.

See Monoblock

I think definitely stronger (Gaskins, Smith etc) but not 'better'. Certainly Dawes' and Allen's standard for UK slab climbing has not really been surpassed.

Nor has the original ascent of Monoblock. The problem has not been repeated in it's original fashion. The other two ascent used a different starting sequence.

[a dense loner]

very entertaining reading. this whole grades debarcle basically reads like it falls into 2 camps. the strong limestone boys who can one-arm shit crimps whilst having absolutely no bodyweight (rich not included in the no bodyweight) n normal people. the normal people are being told that they have never done any hard moves cos they are not strong enough. the comparison for hard moves being a private 50 degree overhanging piece of plywood. the 3 of you have all compared grit grades with grades found in the school, why? if this be the case, ron, seb, keen youth have never approached a hard move in their lives. i don't really believe this to be true.
knowing johnny i actually know what he is talking about rather than reading it on the interweb n misinterpreting. what he is saying is quite simply what legrand said upon hearing that sharma was the best climber in the world "there are many types of climbs".
not wanting to "big up" johnny cos i've got better things to do, i will leave the last word with bent spoon (who some may recall has done a few hard moves) overheard at the dawes 40th "you can't do what i do n i can't do what you do"

as for monoblock at pex, sorry to burst bubbles but no-ones replied cos no-ones interested in a hole in the ground near liverpool. this may be a good venue for locals however it is not in the least inspiring to anyone with eyes

[Jim]

I had another look at golden feet yesterday, amazing
also, I thought the move on manchester dogs is 7b?

[Johnny Brown]

My guess is Monoblock will fall in to the eighties hardcore bracket with Walk on by, Scoop de grace etc. i.e technical, crimpy wall climbing revered and almost unrepeated for many years, until someone puts some time in and it ends up actually 'only' font 7c/+.
Were Walk on by in shropshire i've no doubt it would be unrepeated and locals would worship it as the hardest problem in the country. No offence to the Pex lads (I've been spanked on 6a's there like everyone else ;-).

[clm]

the smelly project wall near preston is awesome.  not only technical but looks relentless.  the wall seems to have been shotblasted or summat so is covered in small wrinkes and nowt else.  smell rpovided by  biffa.  if only wed gone to bed earlier at that partty...

[clm]

id just like to stress that i did not go to bed with jonny...but i cannot deny that for a while dense was in my bed

[blockhead]

I'd be interested to know what Ben Moon thinks about Eng 7a - anybody know? I vaguely remember a quote from the dim and distant past where he said something like 6c just isn't that hard anymore and 6b is a rest. Doesn't this imply he's finding 7a well do-able, which i'm sure he would... depending which side of the argument you go with.

[Nigel]

Apart from the fact that he originally gave The Thing English 7c, and in latter years was quoted as saying that Black Lung was a 7c move followed by a couple of 7b moves, who knows?