[jwi]

https://fanatic-climbing.com/the-big-island-reference-du-haut-niveau-situe-en-zone-sensible-the-big-island-an-hardcore-boulder-located-in-a-fragile-area/

At the end of the 2000s, the deal between the authorities and climbers was simple: climbing is tolerated, but only on condition that there are no circuits, and that visitor numbers remain reasonable and reasoned, i.e. with no mention in climbing guidebooks, information having to be passed on by word of mouth between initiated climbers.
[...]
Images of bad behavior on “The Big Island” are regularly posted on social media, with the climbers in question gradually legitimizing their disrespectful practice with their community, encouraging them to do the same.

[rodma]

Last summer we walked in to have a look at the problem to the right of the island. Nobody there (I mean, it was summer, so I didn't expect there to be anyone else), but there was a stack of 3 or four soggy crash pads "stashed" in plain sight and not sufficiently sheltered to not get wet.

Last October going to a different sector within the Biological Reserve, my son was bored with me projecting, so went exploring and found a crash pad along with a broken (completely broken, just a fixed length piece of aluminium 1m long with nothing else on it) brushstick. We disposed off the broken brushstick i.e. carried it out, drove it to Scotland (didn't know what bin to put it in in France) and would have done the same with the pad, had our car not already been rammed (two snap wraps and a boss hog and a family)

The laziness and selfishness exhibited with pad stashing is frankly astonishing. I regularly carry the three pads mentioned above on my own and I barely weigh any more than Paul B

[Plattsy]

Stumbled across the Big Island last week on a wet walk from Milly.

Four pads and two poles stashed underneath.

Also the remains of a small campfire on the little path.

[Duma]

Saw a vid on IG of someone doing said problem, seemed to have a Bluetooth speaker going. Twat.

[SA Chris]

The idiots are winning..

[JamieG]

Saw a vid on IG of someone doing said problem, seemed to have a Bluetooth speaker going. Twat.

Was posted in the dab thread.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3nNdA4tHle/

The never-ending debate in one IG post: fans, music, future of Font, etc

[rodma]

That particular perp appears to be 15, so perhaps he just needs better advices

[thunderbeest]

So for once those annoying kids took out their ear pods? Or did he still have them in with the speaker going?

[jwi]

Big Island needs an in situ Cedric Lachat to kick speakers out in the forests.

[SA Chris]

every popular crag does.

[sirlockoff]

mejidi also uploaded video about climbing big island, was climbing in pitch black and screaming, wanted to continue watching it today but it's gone (let's hope there was some pressure from sponsors!), though I have never understood the night rule, is it when it gets dark, or when it is night? First being on the winter times 4:30 when it's already pitch black, which kind of implies that there is no climbing mon-fri for normal working person in font. VS eg no climbing after 8pm, (reason I ask is I've seen two philosophies of this!)

the other side of the coin would be when it is 10PM and there is still light.

I saw no calling out from big guns like manu coru either

[Plattsy]

One side to the night rule to my understanding is not disturbing diurnal animals trying to sleep.

[spidermonkey09]

No climbing at night in practice means the landowners don't want lights there when its dark I'd imagine, just as it does in the UK. I've never understood the view that lamping should be allowed because its the only time people can get out. Landowners don't care and I can see why.

Also what Plattsy says: https://bleau.info/ethique?locale=en

[SA Chris]

One side to the night rule to my understanding is not disturbing diurnal animals trying to sleep.

And also, presumably, the nocturnal animals trying to hunt.

"Next week, bats. Are they really blind, or just taking the piss"

(Obscure Fast Show reference)

[yetix]

I took it whilst in font for a long period to be what Jim had said (as in no lamping at all) , but the new rules about parking until 10 is leading me to take it to mean until 10 is fine to be honest. I'd have thought if the rules were to stipulate otherwise the parking rules would have specified nightfall or 1h after nightfall for example.

I'm curious as to what would people would say if someone tried something like trojan war at night which is literally lit by street lights at night for example though...

[Ross Barker]

I would've thought the parking until 10 rule would be to curb vanlifers and those camping in the woods, rather than anything specifically about climbing.

[rodma]

I'm curious as to what would people would say if someone tried something like trojan war at night which is literally lit by street lights at night for example though...

Is it technically within the forest (I appreciate that it's in the forest, but I mean the ONF part)?

[jwi]

Wild-life is unlikely to be goverened by clock time.

I would think most animals in the forests would be crepscular or crepscular + nocturnal.

[yetix]

Approximately there:
Buthiers, Île-de-France
https://maps.app.goo.gl/HAhZPAGua6PFTRfW7 Rodma.

I don't disagree jwi, but I'd also argue then that a number of crags that are seconds away from roads that are busy throughout the night (Buthiers Nord is next to a very busy road)  and the increased impact by climbers at those spots would be minimal at best. Equally I understand why blanket restrictions is what has happened, but in some ways they seem heavy handed.

In terms of camper vans being banned at most spots, I understand the other side (in terms of how busy it was in Easter etc) but equally have met many people who are not as fortunate as I (I'm able to do long stays in Airbnbs due to life flexibility) and would stay in a van as cheaply as possible and at certain times of the year (when the Bivouacs are full) will now be priced out of the area which is disappointing as it does seem like often the poorer in society are those who are impacted the most by restrictions such as the that of the overnight parking issues. Some of the comments online about this topic reek of privilege to me.

Back on topic, the music at the crag I do think is pretty ridiculous. Climbing at night in the coquibus is also a bit shit.

[rodma]

Thanks Yetix

I was trying to see if on managed land at Buthiers (i had a bit of a Google), but am struggling.  Certainly not in a BR or on ONF land as far as I can see, so as much as we think of things as being as in the forest, it's never quite that straightforward

[danm]

There are plenty of cheap options for accommodation in the area, one of the reasons I go to Font is because it's a very cheap and affordable trip with no flying. That said, it would be good if the camping ban lead to more official van parkup points like the one in Milly.

The van scenes at places like Isatis are a disgrace and the tightened rules can't come quickly enough in my opinion. As for privilege, I guess maybe I'd have been able to replace my shitty Combo with 180k on the clock which cost me £3k 12 years ago if I'd skimped on paying for camping or a gite all these years? Perhaps with a Transporter with built in slackline rig and obligatory stickers all over the side of places I have taken an off-road dump in.

[rodma]

The camping at grez is still cheap as chips (just over a tenner a night for two adults).

I don't really see anyone being priced out of the market at that sort of price. Appreciate that campsites are closed for winter months, but, you know, them's the breaks. I presume formule1 are still cheap and shit, when split 3 ways, I'm fairly sure there are also some terrible Airbnb options in less appealing apartments in Fontainebleau itself, but none of these make it any easier to take a shit beside your van in the middle of the night, which is what freedom is all about, unless I'm completely missing the point

[Rrev]

The camping at grez is still cheap as chips (just over a tenner a night for two adults).


I don't really see anyone being priced out of the market at that sort of price. Appreciate that campsites are closed for winter months, but, you know, them's the breaks. I presume formule1 are still cheap and shit, when split 3 ways, I'm fairly sure there are also some terrible Airbnb options in less appealing apartments in Fontainebleau itself, but none of these make it any easier to take a shit beside your van in the middle of the night, play games like here. which is what freedom is all about, unless I'm completely missing the point

I agree that camping offers incomparable freedom.Last year we were at Camping Zaritsi. Great location

[yetix]

Bare in mind the minimum wage in Poland is approx £800 a month compared to the new minimum wage for the same hours in the uk going to be approx £1800 a month soon and you can see how the perspective might differ a little in other locations. Let's not even start on Albania or Bulgaria where the minimum wage is much lower. The impacts to people from these places is obviously going to be much more felt in terms of additional costs being added to a trip.

I'm not disputing that there were issues in the forest, just simple stating that the poorest are once again the ones who will feel this most, and it's the people in positions of relative privilege shouting loudest about this generally.

For sure people should dispose of their waste better, and be more responsible but dismissing those less fortunate who may not get to experience the few places like font as much or at all anymore seems pretty harsh to me.

Edit added relative

[spidermonkey09]

Its all a bit beside the point though. It seems that not lamping the forest is the prevailing ethic there, even if it is technically legal, on the grounds of protecting the forest. Obviously there are exceptions that we could fine, but I'm unconvinced that theres much arguing against thr principle other than 'i want to so i'm going to,' which I think speaks for itself in terms of being a dick. By their nature any kind of rules are a bit heavy handed. No one can seriously expect a boulder by boulder designation of which areas are ok to climb on at night based on proximity to roads surely. If the local ethic is no climbing at night, then don't climb at night.