[abarro81]

abarro, if a 9a climber tells me I’m bad at some specific technique or other, I’ll take it on the chin and look to improve, no problem. If the same person tells me I’m basically not good at climbing

What if they tell you you're bad at the specific technique of climbing up things 
I'm genuinely surprised people are so sensitive about this, maybe I'm just out of touch? If Patxi told me I was over strong and shit I wouldn't find it offensive, I'd find it interesting. Actually his mate did basically tell me I was over strong and a bit shit compared to Patxi and Gonzalo; it didn't seem very offensive, but maybe it's all a context/tone thing, or maybe it's only inoffensive when it aligns with what you already know to be true on some level?

[Bradders]

And Nick the whole over sensitive thing is getting boring, welcome to the real world where people have differing levels of sensitivity to things, shock horror I know

Yes, you're right, it is really boring....

Thanks for the additional context, much more interesting than all the hand wringing over causing offense.

Would you really, if you came across a series of posts made by people that you don't know discussing one of your videos and taking the piss out of you, see that as truth-based guidance for your improvement?

I don't think anyone's taken the piss here. Alex wasn't directly saying Shaun is shit at climbing, he said he couldn't stop thinking about how he couldn't imagine being that strong and not climbing very hard. Clearly based on Carlos' additional context there are all sorts of other factors. Let's explore those and talk about how big an influence those are, and therefore how obviously wrong Alex (and Yetix, and I) are, with our assumption that strong fingers mean climbing is easy. If anything, that'll be helpful for Shaun if he's reading.

[User deactivated.]

I do find it funny that being strong for the grade is looked down upon, whereas being weak for the grade is somehow more noble. If I had to choose, i'd rather be strong for the grade. Being stronger generally means better injury prevention, better health, better transfer to other activities, not looking weedy in normal everyday life, etc...

It drives mad thinking about myself as a 'weak climber' just because I test poorly on a 20mm dangle whilst being relatively strong in literally every other muscle group / exercise I've tested!

[northern yob]

This thread has taken a truly amazing turn…. I can’t resist, sorry.

Obviously I’m old and a dinosaur,  I’d like to think I’ve a relatively open mind I’ve traveled a lot and seen a lot of shit, I’ve experienced most strata ‘s of life, I’ve had friends die from overdoses and  locked up for murder, I also have friends who are insanely privileged, so I’d like to think my view doesn’t come from a sheltered or overly naive place but…..

Does the privileged western world which we all live in need to toughen up a bit? Resilience is a very good thing, is blowing smoke up the yoof of todays arses and worrying about offending people all the time going a bit far, don’t get me wrong it’s my generation which started to do this, and I’m on board with it to a certain degree, but are we going too far… we are social animals, millions of years of evolution have led to hierarchy’s of one form or another, you need to know where you stand… you need to be realistic and you need to take criticism. Im not surprised there’s a huge problem with young people feeling depressed and worthless, they think everyone is equal…. They aren’t that’s not the world we have created or live in…. Does everyone need to man/woman the fuck up a bit, because if the Russians were heading up the M6 I don’t think people have the grit to stop them anymore, and that’s on us!!

Sorry in advance to anyone I might have offended…. Feel free to pile on, I’ve got a pretty thick skin. I always say this but I’m genuinely interested what other people think, don’t hold back on my account I think I can take it.

[Paul B]

What I'd be a bit baffled about is why would you put a video of something like this out there and then be accepting of praise/admiration etc. but somehow not expect that you might receive the opposite (in today's social media world)? OK, if someone is actively nasty then that's not on, but as per the other thread, saying something along the lines of 'you're way too strong for your ability' is just fact.

Im not surprised there’s a huge problem with young people feeling depressed and worthless, they think everyone is equal…. They aren’t that’s not the world we have created or live in….

Things like this are fairly fundamental:
https://x.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1746506285254603067?s=20
https://x.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1746506288287121720?s=20

are why the younger generation are depressed.

[Dingdong]

Can we topic split this please? This thread is about legendary feats of fingerboard, of which we have posted, there’s 0 point in discussing his climbing ability because that’s not what this thread is about.

Could easily split this into “old man yells at cloud” thread if you want to discuss young people being too sensitive or whatever

[Muenchener]

Lattice bouldering training programme, soloing on Lliwedd

My one attempt at soloing on Lliwedd ended with me backing off a move on a Victorian VDiff that I swear was solid 5a. A Lattice bouldering training programme might have helped

[northern yob]

Can we topic split this please? This thread is about legendary feats of fingerboard, of which we have posted, there’s 0 point in discussing his climbing ability because that’s not what this thread is about.

Could easily split this into “old man yells at cloud” thread if you want to discuss young people being too sensitive or whatever

How dare you call me old…. I can call myself that, but fucking hell…. Maybe my skins not as thick as I thought!!

Nothing if not predictable…. Obvs you are right! Thread split is a great idea, I think you’ve coined a great thread title right there…

[Wellsy]

"Kids these days," A UKB Experience

[Fultonius]

"Kids these days," A UKB Experience

It's not all that new. When I started climbing I remember getting quickly (with 3 years?) up to F7b+ sport and 7A boulder outside. I was just getting into trad and could only climb E1, I remember roosting on the long dead Scottish limbs forums, looking for suggestions for routes to help my trad progression and I got a range of comments along the lines.

"why are you pissing around on E1s, if I had that level of ability I'd be on E5/6."

I guess it's difficult to view things from the perspective of others where you're in totally different places.

P.s. I thought at the time they we bonkers and could not see how I could even consider E4, far less E5. Now I get it...

[Wellsy]

Climbing is absolutely riddled with miserable old farts so that hardly surprises me lol

[Fultonius]

In an attempt to bring this back on track....

I see the biggest numbers seem to come from pickuos/lifts, not hangs.

Is that a safety/practicality thing, or does the rest of the chain (shoulder etc) becoming the limiting point for hangs?

[Fultonius]

Climbing is absolutely riddled with miserable old farts so that hardly surprises me lol

They weren't miserable, they were really nice folks! Just we were at other ends of the spectrum and our perspectives were poles apart.

[mrjonathanr]

Lattice bouldering training programme, soloing on Lliwedd

My one attempt at soloing on Lliwedd ended with me backing off a move on a Victorian VDiff that I swear was solid 5a. A Lattice bouldering training programme might have helped

Don’t blame you, scary place, but I think Northern Yob’s coaching might be more relevant. I read yesterday about Harding and a partner walking from Helyg over Tryfan, Glydyr Fawr, down into the Pass and then back via Tryfan. They managed to take in 32 pitches en route, the last of which was Soap Gut, in the dark. This was 1930 something.

[Wellsy]

In an attempt to bring this back on track....

I see the biggest numbers seem to come from pickuos/lifts, not hangs.

Is that a safety/practicality thing, or does the rest of the chain (shoulder etc) becoming the limiting point for hangs?

Tbh I feel the opposite is true, but only from my own experience. In one armed lifts I'm very close to a friend of mine, but I can put a degree more overall weight on when hanging. I think lifts are maybe more objective but I feel like their limited by deadlift ability rather than finger strength.

Anecdotally I found going from two handed hangs to lifts made my fingers feel weaker and when I went back to hangs, I'd dropped in max weight.

[Will Hunt]

If you're done with that Shaun bloke then do Tim Palmer next 
It's OK he won't mind.

[mrjonathanr]

I stand corrected, 30 routes apparently (4th paragraph p3 here)
https://www.climbers-club.co.uk/cms/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Helyg.pdf

[Droyd]

In terms of an on-topic reply, I'm of the opinion that a statement like 'having extremely strong fingers must make climbing incredibly easy' says more about the person saying it (and what they feel they lack) than about the person being spoken about. It feels a bit like when shorties who are fed up of not being able to reach holds say say things like 'everything must be easy if you're tall', and the lanksters go to great pains to explain how hard sit starts are with long legs and how awful being heavy is and how difficult fitting into a small box is, and saying they wished they had short legs and were light and could fit into small boxes as then everything would feel easy...

As someone whose PB on a two-armed hang on a 20mm edge is 32 kg (just under 150% BW), I regularly see people busting out one-armed hangs and pullups and think ‘shit, if I had that strength I’d be…’, but ultimately if I had that strength I wouldn’t be me - and maybe I’d be less technically competent (/able to make the most of the advantages I do have, as realistically I’m probably pretty shit technically). And of all the reasons I don't succeed, the fact that I can't dangle off a bit of wood for longer or with more weight attached is so far down the list as compared to basic things like not resting enough, having inefficient beta, getting in my own head because I have to do it now because the weather craps out tomorrow and so I want it too much and climb like shit, and a million other things that have nothing to do with strength but everything to do with ability.

[Dingdong]

Not sure it counts as legendary but I managed a 76.5kg lift left with my left hand    am also crap at climbing

[Wellsy]

Not sure it counts as legendary but I managed a 76.5kg lift left with my left hand    am also crap at climbing

Realistically, you aren't. A lot of people would love to climb at your level.

[Dingdong]

Just thought I’d get in there preemptively before Alex does 

[Wellsy]

Lol

[spidermonkey09]

In the case I was thinking of, the guy was absolutely devastated. My impression was that he had mixed motivations. He liked strength training and revelled in his mastery of that. He also had climbing aspirations and felt affinity for the climbing community  (whatever that is). Anyway, the online commentary about how his strength feats demonstrated climbing ineptitude, upset him so much that he deleted all copies of all videos he had and caused him to view "the climbing community" as being cruel and alienating.

Even things said with a friendly good natured intention can be taken really badly.

This can be split into the other thread, and I say this as a card carrying member of the labour party, who considers himself left wing, a trans ally, a feminist, generally a social democrat and very anti the culture wars. I'm also not old!

But if all that's true he was massively overreacting and should have got a grip. Devastated? Cruel? Give me a break!

[teestub]

If you're done with that Shaun bloke then do Tim Palmer next 
It's OK he won't mind.

You got beef with Palmstrong? He’s pretty handy on the rocks

[MischaHY]

I’m one of the finger strength weirdos so feel like I can reasonably contribute here.

I’ve had freakishly strong fingers since starting climbing and could one arm the Lattice rung whilst climbing f7c (routes). My PB on 20mm is +85kg with an 83kg bodyweight at the time.
One armed PB is +13.5 so 93.5kg total at the time.

Basically all this says to me is that finger strength is just one element of many important strength elements in climbing. I just don’t need to train edge strength because it’s not a limiting factor. My training needs to concentrated on the areas that feel hard and that I want to improve in, simple as that.

Barrows isn’t being particularly mean, just not very constructive. That being said it’s not his job to be constructive and I personally benefited from a few people saying ‘wtf go train something else’.

I do think it’s a bit silly to say ‘why aren’t you climbing 9b’ because it’s not a useful question. Clearly there is another gap. The useful information there is that you no longer need to train fingerboard to make progress.