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How small is too small?

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User deactivated.:
I've been cramming my feet into small rock shoes for a while now and the discomfort has become normal to the point that I don't really recognise it. For reference I'm a 10 UK in normal trainers and wear Scarpa Instincts in a 7 / 41 - these are the smallest I can get into.

I feel that I perform best when my big toe is rammed against the end of the shoe in a highly crimped position with as little material between my toe and the wall as possible. But then again, I've been paying most attention to how my shoes feel on a 50 degree board with small c.10-15mm screw ons for feet. It's unsurprising that an extreme foot position works best on this terrain.

But even with all this downsizing, I've still not found a heel cup that I fill without dead space underneath. I had a lightbulb moment that maybe this is actually because of extreme downsizing, so I need to experiment with bigger shoes. I'm aware that a shoe should also smear better when not downsized too aggressively. I think I get around this currently by weighing over 80kg.

Is it just an uncomfortable truth (like low bodyweight is better for tiny crimping) that having the ultimate edging performance on steep walls with small feet means probably doing lasting damage to your feet? (I'm sure Ondra doesn't go down 5 sizes for no reason). If so, I think I may need to set more problems with larger foot holds and limit my time in my size 7's.

Really I'm just looking for some thoughts / anecdotes on rock shoe sizing and how much others downsize.

Dingdong:
I don’t usually downsize more than 1 to 1 and half sizes but I have really wide feet, this also depends on brand, with UP shoes I can’t downsize at all otherwise I can’t get them on. With sportiva I downsize bigger than evolves by about a half to full size. I’m a street 8 and usually wear a 6 1/2 to 7. Definitely worth going to a shop and trying as many different brands and models as you can in different sizes, a well fitting heel is pretty important as I’m sure you already know!

sirlockoff:
funny you mention this!

i actually had little revelation myself about 6 months ago, I have been wearing la sportiva solutions well over 8 years, always size 43.5, and occasionally 43 for more "hardcore heels" and "invisible footholds", however at some point I've started having issues with my toes due to this downsizing, some pain and so on. In other words, that was not going to work for the long term.

I am 47 street size - note solutions are a bit oddity as the sizing works differently, I don't actually downsize that much normally, neither would it be possible, that is just to say if you hear ondra wearing solutions X size and has Y size street shoes, that does not convert to other models/brands - I wear size 46 unparallel, 45 would kill me).


I've recently switched to 43.5 solution comps, but the pain was just amplified, I now wear solution comps at size 44, my feet have never been this happy, and I feel like cinderella, and I've gotten some hard heelhooks done too. In 3 months of font, I did not once blame the shoes for anything neither wished anything was different, I don't even take my shoes off, and the other day I was doing 100kg squats in the shoes, felt great.

moral of the story, it is worth trying bigger shoes, also to take into account that you want to do this sport for more 30-40+ years, you deffo need to have comfortable shoes. If you find there is some specific problem that just does not work with your comfortable shoes, have a backup shoes that are optimized for cases where the comfortable shoes fail.

The heelcup fit is more to do really with how the shoe fits you, not so much about downsizing, I've tried more than 30+ shoes, but the only ones that really hit the spot were solutions / unparallel uprise pro (for trad),

was there not company who did custom sizing 3d printing? if you really wanna optimize the size!

mrjonathanr:

--- Quote from: Liamhutch89 on January 01, 2024, 08:37:49 am ---

I feel that I perform best when my big toe is rammed against the end of the shoe in a highly crimped position with as little material between my toe and the wall as possible.

--- End quote ---

Why not try something that automatically does this for you, like Magos, for example?

Evolv Phantom and Shaman also orientate the toe down and support the space underneath with a bump.

I used to use really tight Magos then realised that half a size up made no difference to performance and was a lot more comfortable.

Edit - you asked about sizing. 42 street shoe. 41.5 mago mk 2 (blue and yellow), 42 shaman.
41 in Instincts, but I’ve sacked these off as they’re not asymmetrical enough and bend my big toe unpleasantly. Last shape is key to comfort.

User deactivated.:
I have Evolv Phantoms and they feel far less powerful on my feet on small holds compared to my favoured La Sportiva Theory's similarly downsized (yes, the comp style blob jumping shoe, allegedly). Anyone want to buy some Phantom's (9 UK)? Despite fitting quite well (except the heel of course), the shape of the toebox just doesn't seem to work for me.

Funny you should mention Mago's. I have a pair sat on my desk right now after ordering a load of shoes from bananafingers. I misremembered my Instinct size at the time of ordering and went with a 7.5. they feel extremely tight but actually quite good in the toe, though I haven't climbed in them. The heel is still loose. I went back to check the bananafingers sizing calculator and it reckons if I wear Instincts in a 7 then I should wear Mago's in a 6.5  :???: that is incomprehensible to me.

Still, I am tempted to keep Mago's as my uncomfortable, very downturned and asymmetrical edging weapons, and just try to do a bit less of this style of climbing (more feet follow problems on the board I reckon). Then I think I need to experiment with upsizing an all rounder like the Instinct.

Still doesn't solve the heel issue!

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