How can we give someone stick for giving a high grade to something and then it gets downgraded
QuoteHow can we give someone stick for giving a high grade to something and then it gets downgradedBecause it can be perceived as a cynical attempt to get the requisite publicity for the 'hardest route in the world' rather than the grade and hype it more probably deserves. Were you not around for the Walk of Life E12 fiasco?Personally I don't get annoyed when people opt not to grade routes. Preferable to waving a massive fake willy imo.
If this is easier than Meltdown it makes me wonder why Meltdown didn't take this route in the first place? Is it a less obvious line on the wall?
If Caff now says this is 9a and Meltdown is more like 8c+ then that's hardly Franco's fault.
If this is easier than Meltdown it makes me wonder why Meltdown didn't take this route in the first place?
Quote from: Wellsy on November 09, 2023, 02:22:36 pmIf Caff now says this is 9a and Meltdown is more like 8c+ then that's hardly Franco's fault.I thought Caff originally gave it 8c+/9a on account of the fact he was unsure as he had little to go on (had he repeated the Big Bang at that point?)
...in twenty years time, the hard "adventure" routes will be become relics only living in fading memories and UKC logbooks. Climbers will be afraid to do routes in anything but the most orthodox way in to avoid a circular cantankerous dressing down from UKB. In response, the UKTR (UK top route) forum will be created and seen as the voice of reason.
I think that some people are saying that Franco's grade 9a+ is a cynical, deliberate overgrade for the purposes for fame,
Quote from: Teaboy on November 09, 2023, 03:48:16 pmQuote from: Wellsy on November 09, 2023, 02:22:36 pmIf Caff now says this is 9a and Meltdown is more like 8c+ then that's hardly Franco's fault.I thought Caff originally gave it 8c+/9a on account of the fact he was unsure as he had little to go on (had he repeated the Big Bang at that point?)Sure but then it says 9a on UKC, 8a.nu and such, like I think that saying that it got 9a is defensible. And if it did get 9a then like, if one did a variation that's harder then giving it 9a+ is fair. To me!I think that some people are saying that Franco's grade 9a+ is a cynical, deliberate overgrade for the purposes for fame, which to me seems rather baseless, he did do Meltdown after all... it feels like this is more "Franco is a cock" than a legitimate argument against his gradeMaybe he is a cock. Maybe he's a cock that's climbed a new 9a+ though.
Ukc says whatever the moderator says it is.Caff said 8c+/1+9a when he did it as seen on 8a.nu...https://www.8a.nu/news/james-mchaffie-sends-the-meltdown-project
Quote from: Teaboy on November 09, 2023, 03:48:16 pmQuote from: Wellsy on November 09, 2023, 02:22:36 pmIf Caff now says this is 9a and Meltdown is more like 8c+ then that's hardly Franco's fault.I thought Caff originally gave it 8c+/9a on account of the fact he was unsure as he had little to go on (had he repeated the Big Bang at that point?)Sure but then it says 9a on UKC, 8a.nu and such, like I think that saying that it got 9a is defensible.
That being bolted was a total gut punch - I actually shed a tear when I saw these bolts, it was really, really sad to see something like that being destroyed in that way. I don't expect anyone else to see it my way (which maybe even makes it even sadder), but that is the strength of feeling I had towards that challenge. It wasn't a piss take or frivolous. Perhaps I shouldn't have publicised the fact I had done it sport style, but I thought people would be interested.
Quote from: Franco on November 10, 2023, 04:08:34 pmThat being bolted was a total gut punch - I actually shed a tear when I saw these bolts, it was really, really sad to see something like that being destroyed in that way. I don't expect anyone else to see it my way (which maybe even makes it even sadder), but that is the strength of feeling I had towards that challenge. It wasn't a piss take or frivolous. Perhaps I shouldn't have publicised the fact I had done it sport style, but I thought people would be interested. You definitely shouldn't have claimed it as a sport route if you feel that strongly about bolts being put in it
Quote from: Franco on November 10, 2023, 04:08:34 pmYou definitely shouldn't have claimed it as a sport route if you feel that strongly about bolts being put in it Quite.Like Will, I don't particularly like filling in holds that appear due to breakage. I also don't like gluing holds back on unless strictly necessary. Holds break and things get harder. Holds break and things get easier. Sometime both things happen on the same route. It happens all the time and shouldn't (and doesn't) necessarily mean things getting glued, even at crags that already have plenty of sika.
You definitely shouldn't have claimed it as a sport route if you feel that strongly about bolts being put in it