[Paz]

You've just got onto two footholds on a vertical wall and the only immediate hand hold is a wide undercut at shoulder height.  What can you do (to not fall off, that's static)?  

It might be a follow on from my weird wrist/shoulder shit that prevents me undercutting high in the orthodox manner (or the fact that it was on a route (or even the fact that it was cold and damp, and at Cheddar)) but I've twice now taken the undercut - elbow up.  And reached to something else cold and damp.  You move your arm through a gaston position, but keep moving your arm up.  Weird shit.  Can any technical wizard tell me if it's rad technique or not and if so what's it called?  Neil Gresham doesn't have it in his PF library so obviously I shouldn't rule out Indian Face or Grit E10.  Invert that elBO!

[Bubba]

You mean like a Gaston...but rotated 90 degs? Reckon that's still a gaston innit?

That said, I reckon you should make it your own and give it a name - I nominate "pazton".

I guess it depends what comes next - if there's another hold within reach then why not? But if you've got a way to go for the next hold then a trad undercut is going to allow you more height once you've got it established. What you're describing limits upward movement from that position?

[dave]

whatup paz, thats exactly the way i always had to do the "not westworld" B6 undercutting thing at westside. get your reverse gaston with right hand, stand into it, match undercut, flip to normal grip and get break.

think the main thing is with that reverse gaston you don't need a big bicep to pull into it, which is why i had to use it on that problem cos i never had the bicep beef to straight undercut it (i can do it normally now, but only just!).

[Paz]

Cheers, but it's a small step from there to Panton!  Trundercut's good, following on from slimps and cropers.  I like Rebuffed-Gaston, or G-undercut.  Or I first thought of Mugging as the title suggests.  MUG that undercut (Dude!).

Yeah, you'd have to do something amazing to build your feet up and actually use it for a long reach.  I think you can use it to oppose a good foot hold and gain a little bit of height in much the same way as a normal gaston/rockover though as the move gets bigger things will rapidly get painful in your shoulder and I think I've only used it as something to rock into, as you can't reach the next holds straight away (with out being dynamic which there's no need for on a 5c move!).  

I'll get booking my holiday to France to use this new found skill to down grade all these 9a's.

[Jim]

isn't summit like that at the start of mushin? can't remember and was only on it t'other week!

[dave]

yeah you can do the start of mushin like that. its harder to make it work ona  vertical wall though!

[Paz]

Word D, is that what you called your "patented side-on undercutting"?  I did that one by Trundercutting, but probably just frog started it on to my outer edge a bit.  If you can imagine the mantel problem at the roaches, but with the undercut 10 inches higher, then maybe it'd be ace for that.  With a break that wide though, I'm thinking knee bar potential or even, lie down rest.  There we have it, it's even a great technique for horizontal cracks (i.e. breaks, albeit leaving them).