[Fultonius]

A route I'm working (Endurance) is a bit of a link-up/hybrid but established in its own right and has plenty of ascents. When first contrived, one new bolt was added (or it might be two, struggling to remember). However, where it joins the original route the original clip on Sufferance is way off to the left and isn't really clippable on the regualr sequence of Endurance.

There's plenty of good rock up and right which would be:

1. not clippable from other lines
2. not confuse those on other routes
3. make working the crux a bit easier
4. make onsighting more feasible.

I've spoken to a few people and the all thought it was fine to put one in. Good start.

Now, to the question of ideal placement. Is it better (on a route graded 8a FYI) to optimise it for possibility to clip on a theoretical onsight attempt, or make it more ideal for the working/redpoint of it?

My instinct would be to go for the latter option, but keep it in reach (even if at a stretch) for those on the onsight / first burn. In this case I think the "ideal" positon for RP/working would be out of reach for putting the clip in, so there's always going to be some compromise.

Any thoughts?

[M1V0]

Would it be a necessary bolt to clip on the route for safety reasons? ie, if you were to skip the clip are you going to deck?

[spidermonkey09]

Would either placement affect rope drag on a go from the ground? for me that should probably take priority over positioning it for ease of working the route.

From what you've written it sounds like the ideal working position is still a tricky clip, which seems somewhat counter intuitive? I'd be tempted to put it where its most easily clippable.

[Fultonius]

Would it be a necessary bolt to clip on the route for safety reasons? ie, if you were to skip the clip are you going to deck?

You'd be pretty close to decking I think, especially with slack out to clip. I'll check tomorrow.

[spidermonkey09]

Would it be a necessary bolt to clip on the route for safety reasons? ie, if you were to skip the clip are you going to deck?

You'd be pretty close to decking I think, especially with slack out to clip. I'll check tomorrow.

Even more reason to just put it wherever its easiest to clip surely?

[Fultonius]

Would either placement affect rope drag on a go from the ground? for me that should probably take priority over positioning it for ease of working the route.

From what you've written it sounds like the ideal working position is still a tricky clip, which seems somewhat counter intuitive? I'd be tempted to put it where its most easily clippable.

The current bolt needs a load of extension to be able to clip it (120cm sling) but rope drag is pretty minimal in any scenario - better with with both positions I've suggested.

Ah.... a video of Will on the FA:     (he makes it look faaar to easy, but basically it means you have to do the crux and then 2 moves beyond before leaning back across to clip.)

So, I was thinking here:



But strangely now, watching this video it seems less clear-cut than it felt while working it. Hmm....

@MV10 - no, in retrospect the fall is not so bad and deffo not ground fall territory.

[M1V0]

Would it be a necessary bolt to clip on the route for safety reasons? ie, if you were to skip the clip are you going to deck?

You'd be pretty close to decking I think, especially with slack out to clip. I'll check tomorrow.

Please don't check by actually decking.

[Fultonius]

Would it be a necessary bolt to clip on the route for safety reasons? ie, if you were to skip the clip are you going to deck?

You'd be pretty close to decking I think, especially with slack out to clip. I'll check tomorrow.

Please don't check by actually decking.

 

The reason I suggest the placement above is that you're on an "ok" hold for clipping off, rather than committing to a sequence of bad holds before getting the good flatty beyond the crux. I guess it would take away an element of the original but it does make it a faff to work as it is...

[haydn jones]

100% bolted for an onsight. It's an absolute nightmare trying onsight stuff just to find the clips are utterly desperate 8a is piss these days(not for me though! I still find it desperate!) there's got to be at least 100 people in the UK that could onsight that grade.

[abarro81]

I would generally say place the bolt to make it easy to put the draw in... but I'm sure I've cursed about wishing bolts were 20cm higher when working things too!

[Fultonius]

100% bolted for an onsight. It's an absolute nightmare trying onsight stuff just to find the clips are utterly desperate 8a is piss these days(not for me though! I still find it desperate!) there's got to be at least 100 people in the UK that could onsight that grade.

I'll see if I can get a place that's reachable from good holds on the o/s, but still as good as it can be for working.

[Teaboy]

100% bolted for an onsight. It's an absolute nightmare trying onsight stuff just to find the clips are utterly desperate 8a is piss these days(not for me though! I still find it desperate!) there's got to be at least 100 people in the UK that could onsight that grade.

I'll see if I can get a place that's reachable from good holds on the o/s, but still as good as it can be for working.

Bolt it for the onsight, even if your not on sighting it you still need to hang the draws at the start of each session.
If a dogging bolt helps then add one as well, the latest eco-bolts in use at Pen Trwyn are unobtrusive to the point of invisibility from a few meters away.

[mrjonathanr]

Would it be a necessary bolt to clip on the route for safety reasons? ie, if you were to skip the clip are you going to deck?

You'd be pretty close to decking I think, especially with slack out to clip. I'll check tomorrow.

Let us know if you survive.