[abarro81]

Strange blog, climbing is not swimming, but it probably bears many resemblances to sports in which you interact with competitors making movement patterns more varied and unpredictable and the whole thing an interesting mix of technical, tactical, mental and physical (boxing, martial arts, football etc.)

P.s. I do wish people would just say want they want to say and not waffle around with vague criticisms or references. Pisses me off no end.

[Wellsy]

Yeah this all seems cryptic and a bit vague to me. What decisions? About what? Made by whom?

[Steve Crowe]

It’s not netball neither.

[Wood FT]

Speed climbing is shite

[shark]

Yeah this all seems cryptic and a bit vague to me. What decisions? About what? Made by whom?

I don’t know what decisions about what but I do have some knowledge of who is involved and what the structure is. The whole area has grown and developed over the last few years as you might expect as a fledgling Olympic sport.

Ultimate responsibility lies with the BMC Board of Directors and there is a sub committee with delegated authority set up a couple of years ago called the CCPG (Climbing Competitions Performance Group) whose terms of reference (ToR) are here and their responsibility is to manage GB Climbing which in turn is headed up by Lorraine Brown. GB Climbing encompasses running comps, managing the team and talent development.

Formerly the only BMC employee fully engaged with GB Climbing was the comps officer who is Zoe Spriggins. This has expanded with employment of Lorraine (Head of Performance) as well as Tim Cunnington (Coach Development Manager) Lucinda Whittaker  (Pathway Manager) Tom Greenall (Head Coach). Before other staff employees had part time involvement with GB Climbing.

Originally there was a recommendation to set up GB Climbing as a separate independent subsidiary with its own Board but this was changed to have the set up as an independent department (or ‘business unit’ as the ToR describes it) with oversight by the CCPG which unceremoniously replaced the Comps Committee.

Rab Carrington has been involved with this whole process and has been Chairing the CCPG since it’s inception but announced that he was stepping down a few months ago and a new Chair should be announced shortly. The CCPG does have athlete representation on the Committee BTW. There have not been any CCPG minutes published since May last year. The Board have been similarly bad. Not good for transparency.

There is no one on the BMC Board who has a strong background from the Comps community despite the BMC’s best efforts to advertise for someone with that sort of background.

Interestingly Paul Davies the CEO of the BMC initially came into the fold with his volunteer involvement with the CCPG before applying for the CEO job. He has a background with British Netball which I now realise is what Steve was referring to above but if the governance is working as stated then his responsibility for the management, policies, procedures of GB Climbing should be zero as I understand it.


Full BMC staff list is here

[tc]

"Tom leads on the continual development, review, refinement, and improvement of GB Climbing’s Performance Matrix, and works with the rest of GB Climbing to develop effective sustainable systems for longitudinal tracking and monitoring of the performance status and progress of athletes throughout the GB Climbing Performance and Talent pathway, with a focus on delivery of aspects of Olympic Competition."

Surely you could have worked 'holistic', 'cross-pollinate', 'operationalise' and 'high-level learnings' into this magnificent description. Or perhaps I am just decomposing this to a lower level of granulation?

[danm]

"Tom leads on the continual development, review, refinement, and improvement of GB Climbing’s Performance Matrix, and works with the rest of GB Climbing to develop effective sustainable systems for longitudinal tracking and monitoring of the performance status and progress of athletes throughout the GB Climbing Performance and Talent pathway, with a focus on delivery of aspects of Olympic Competition."

Surely you could have worked 'holistic', 'cross-pollinate', 'operationalise' and 'high-level learnings' into this magnificent description. Or perhaps I am just decomposing this to a lower level of granulation?

Good work on picking out some choice bullshit bingo words from your quiver, but to be frank although it's overly wordy, the role description for Tom essentially says what he does without a huge amount of extraneous flannel. I'm sure there are some far worse examples you could find and pillory from behind the comfort of your keyboard if you put the effort in. Back around!

[mrjonathanr]

The omission of 'synergies' is particularly disappointing imo

[danm]

The omission of 'synergies' is particularly disappointing imo

Heads will roll for this.

[petejh]

Heads will roll

Or in BMC-speak: 'upper level decision-making nodes will strategically relocate following a 360-degree review of the surroundings'.

[shark]

Does anyone know the current composition of the teams? The GB Climbing website is out of date as Will is still on there.

I’ve heard that Aidan hasn’t been selected because he couldn’t attend the selection event because of a broken foot. That seems crazy if true as the selection criteria gives the selectors a lot of discretion to take into account things like injury in choosing the team. Pretty fucked up if they’ve lost the two standout male climbers of this generation.

[Wellsy]

The sad thing is that if Aidan wasn't selected I'd be happier as it would mean that he'd be able to spend more time pushing the limits of British bouldering on rock

Obvs if he wanted to be selected and wasn't for some bullshit reason then I'd be sad for him as I imagine he'd be gutted over that but it is interesting to think of the tensions between comp climbing and development of rock climbing

That said maybe I'm just overthinking it

[teestub]

I’ve heard that Aidan hasn’t been selected because he couldn’t attend the selection event because of a broken foot. That seems crazy if true as the selection criteria gives the selectors a lot of discretion to take into account things like injury in choosing the team. Pretty fucked up if they’ve lost the two standout male climbers of this generation.

Do you actually care about GB comp climbing performances, or are you just using this as another stick to attempt to beat the BMC? Don’t think Aidan has competed for some time and thought that I’d read he was no longer interested, but not sure where.

[Percy B]

The best rock climbers aren't the always the best comp climbers. And vice versa.
Comp climbing has suddenly got a lot more serious and the days of being the best climber outdoors and being able to rock up at a World Cup and win that too are long gone. Ondra proves this on a regular basis (not that fair - he does win some big comps, but on paper he should win all of them!)
Winning a qualification round where there is no pressure, and having the head to win a big final with the eyes of the TV viewing world on you are different games. It's much easier to climb when there's no pressure, but dealing with pressure is a huge part of comp climbing.
I think GB Climbing are backing dedicated comp athletes who are committed long term to comp climbing. They are looking to develop athletes for Olympic Games in 8 or 12 years time - not who's cranking now.
The progression to Olympic level sport has and will continue to change the sport of competition climbing out of all recognition from what we have known before, and many of these changes will not be pretty. They will almost all come about because of 'experts' who can smell money coming onto the sport.

[shark]

Do you actually care about GB comp climbing performances, or are you just using this as another stick to attempt to beat the BMC?

I’m psyched that Will is taking a year out to focus on outdoor climbing as I’m far more excited by what he does on rock. On the other hand I also have a long-standing interest in the BMC and how it meets its obligations and expectations. Presumably the primary goal of GB Climbing is to have the national team perform well on the world stage and if their procedures, management or whatever have caused or contributed to the loss of the star player then it is not meeting its obligations/expectations.

[teestub]

Star player seems a bit of a push, do you know how many senior podiums Will has been on?

[shark]

Star player seems a bit of a push, do you know how many senior podiums Will has been on?

Enlighten me

[crimpinainteasy]

Star player seems a bit of a push, do you know how many senior podiums Will has been on?

Enlighten me

He hasn't podiumed afaik

[northern yob]

The best rock climbers aren't the always the best comp climbers. And vice versa.
Comp climbing has suddenly got a lot more serious and the days of being the best climber outdoors and being able to rock up at a World Cup and win that too are long gone. Ondra proves this on a regular basis (not that fair - he does win some big comps, but on paper he should win all of them!)
Winning a qualification round where there is no pressure, and having the head to win a big final with the eyes of the TV viewing world on you are different games. It's much easier to climb when there's no pressure, but dealing with pressure is a huge part of comp climbing.
I think GB Climbing are backing dedicated comp athletes who are committed long term to comp climbing. They are looking to develop athletes for Olympic Games in 8 or 12 years time - not who's cranking now.
The progression to Olympic level sport has and will continue to change the sport of competition climbing out of all recognition from what we have known before, and many of these changes will not be pretty. They will almost all come about because of 'experts' who can smell money coming onto the sport.

Finally the voice of reason, well at least a little bit of sense….  100% what Percy says.

[cowboyhat]

Can we change this thread title,

‘Old dads don’t understand comp climbing and even millennials are disillusioned with it’

[northern yob]

Can we change this thread title,

‘Old dads don’t understand comp climbing and even millennials are disillusioned with it’

Bishton is old and a dad….. he understands!!

[shark]

The progression to Olympic level sport has and will continue to change the sport of competition climbing out of all recognition from what we have known before, and many of these changes will not be pretty. They will almost all come about because of 'experts' who can smell money coming onto the sport.

Sounds ominous. What changes do you anticipate?

[Bradders]

The best rock climbers aren't the always the best comp climbers. And vice versa.
Comp climbing has suddenly got a lot more serious and the days of being the best climber outdoors and being able to rock up at a World Cup and win that too are long gone. Ondra proves this on a regular basis (not that fair - he does win some big comps, but on paper he should win all of them!)
Winning a qualification round where there is no pressure, and having the head to win a big final with the eyes of the TV viewing world on you are different games. It's much easier to climb when there's no pressure, but dealing with pressure is a huge part of comp climbing.
I think GB Climbing are backing dedicated comp athletes who are committed long term to comp climbing. They are looking to develop athletes for Olympic Games in 8 or 12 years time - not who's cranking now.
The progression to Olympic level sport has and will continue to change the sport of competition climbing out of all recognition from what we have known before, and many of these changes will not be pretty. They will almost all come about because of 'experts' who can smell money coming onto the sport.

It's deeply upsetting to see climbing going this way though; just another conveyor belt of performance induced misery, leaching the heart and soul from the participants and regurgitating repetitive "competition" in the name of money and mass entertainment.

It's no wonder whatsoever that there are fewer and fewer comp climbers older than 23/4. As soon as they're released from the yolk of parental expectation / desperation they see the light and realise that true joy in climbing will never lie in competition. I imagine Shauna for instance would have sacked it off a couple of years ago had she already got an Olympics under her belt.

[turnipturned]

. Pretty fucked up if they’ve lost the two standout male climbers of this generation.

Surely the two stand out COMP male climbers of this generation are Max Milne and Hamish Mcarthur??

(not taking anything away from Aidan and Will, as hands down, there are in a totally different league on rock to everyone else in the UK)

[duncan]

The progression to Olympic level sport has and will continue to change the sport of competition climbing out of all recognition from what we have known before, and many of these changes will not be pretty. They will almost all come about because of 'experts' who can smell money coming onto the sport.

Sounds ominous. What changes do you anticipate?

Administrators bringing their 'transferable skills' from other sports who are only in it for the money and reflected glory, abusive parents and coaches, PEDs, corrupt administration hand-in-glove with despotic regimes, money channeled to potential medal winning sports and athletes and away from the grass-roots. If other sports are anything to go by.