[MischaHY]

Because he had bigger legs? 

Not sure if I'm missing some tongue in cheeky here - but no, it'll be because he's got better fat adaptation than JWI so could sustain better with less dietary glycogen replenishment.

@Jwi I've found that I can resolve the issue by consistently eating a mix of macros throughout the day but it just has to be a fair bit more than seems expectable. I don't do well with sweets though, better things that have a blend of carbs and fat in that case.

[mrjonathanr]

it was facetious.

[Fultonius]

If you want to do the tests, I'm happy to analyse the data and send you a brief summary. The easiest way to do this test is probably to devote a full day to it. Warm up well and then do the following:

1) Find your maximum two-arm hang weight on the edge you use. Rest 10+ mins.
105kg BW 80kg
2) Do 7:3 repeaters to failure at 50%, 60%, 70% and 80% of your max weight*. Rest 20+ mins between these efforts.
3) Send me the times from each hang and your max weight (incl bodyweight).
50%: 280 (inc rest time, so 196 TuT)
60%: 180 (126s TuT)
70%: 140 (98s TuT)
80%: 90/100  (I did 9 reps, but my wrist wasn't too happy - I suspect I could have pushed 10 but was getting pretty powered out) 63 TuT.

[cheque]

Leg fitness, strength and (to a lesser extent) flexibility are hugely underrated by climbers. I guess because we develop them as a byproduct of what we do in our daily lives as much as our climbing and unless we’re into other leg-heavy sports or pastimes we never deliberately train them.

I didn’t realise they were attributes I even had until I didn’t have them any more and everything felt very hard. An absolute bastard to build back up again too.

[Fultonius]

So, this week I took Stu up on the offer of doing some Critical Force testing, to see if it could shed any light on what's going on with my current level of energy systems.

After my ambiguous lattice assessment ( I broke the system) I was actually unsure as to where I was. I figured from my background (plenty trad, onsight sport trips, winter) and what the assessment seemed to point to, that my aerobic fitness would be ok, and that I should focus this winter mainly on AnCap (short endurance / base work), strength and general conditioning.

I've been doing that now for 10-12 weeks, (with focussed AnCap only since Christmas). I had planned a long block of 12-14 weeks of AnCap, as I hear it's got longer adaptation times.

Anyway, long story short, having now done the crit force test it seems like my Anaerobic Capacity is actually quite high* and my aerobic base endurance is pretty low. Initially this was surprising, as I just generally assumed my aerobic endurance would be ok; but reflecting back on the last trip to Margalef, I was strong on crux sections but struggled on longer, more sustained efforts (i.e. Magic Festival). Also thinking back to the last few years in general, I've probably neglected doing much base aerobic work and only really ever done 4 weeks of "top up" prior to trips etc. My summer trad climbing has been too limited to really make any steady gains.

I was initially a bit displeased with the slightly ambiguous lattice result, but now having done the crit force test *I think* that:

My initial "max moves" was constrained by poor aerobic conditioning, but was still not far below what was expected due to high anaerobic capacity. Then, because my 75% effort was relatively easy for me, it didn't drain the anaerobic tank meaning my subsequent 2 laps could both still be completed.

My takeaway (and Stu's recommendation) form all this is that I need to shift over pronto to some base aerobic work for 4-6 weeks, followed by some quality power endurance work closer to when I'm aiming to "peak".

I've got 3-4 weeks in europe at the end of March where I'm really just aiming for mileage, skill practice and onsighting, but is there a good way of "getting fit on the routes"? Throw some back to back laps at the end of the day?




*Stu did caveat that the data on that bit is not the strongest, but it also ties in somewhat with my inability to drain the anaerobic tank in the lattice 75% tests.

[jwi]

Stu, are you using that CF should be 41% of the max 7s hang with a standard deviation of 6.2% as in the first of the two papers of Giles and co authors? N=12 seems small

[Stu Littlefair]

From the larger second paper (around 120 participants), and my own less formal sample of friends and people I’ve tested.

The larger paper uses a different methodology (an all out test) but the results are similar, if not totally identical.

I’ve seen CF range from mid 20s for boulderers to mid 50s for very fit sport climbers.

[monkoffunk]

Very possible this has been discussed already, but anyone have any thoughts on Dave Masons ultra low intensity, ultra high volume finger stuff for increasing work capacity? I’ve just listened to his recent Careless Talk podcast, and it sounds appealing as something truly supplemental with no impact on other training. Sounds totally unappealing in terms of time commitment. However, gaining strength to a certainly level is easy for me as it’s my most accessible training modality, but endurance isn’t. Going climbing is a luxury and my session stamina is so low. Would be nice to be making more of a limited resource, maybe by using other downtime.

For those who haven’t heard, it involves a spring based hinge pinch block thing which Dave uses low resistance high volume. He says someone like Barrows would get no benefit but for him as a through and through boulderer there could be significant gains.

Anyway, I don’t know I could hit the hours he suggests you need, but also hard to commit to something without much evidence beyond one person.

[abarro81]

I've actually done a reasonable amount of this kind of thing in the past, with various different exercises - powerball, doing bicep curls and wrist curls with dumbbells only (or 1kg weights), holding a pinch block or pick-up edge with not much weight, EMS machines, and even juggling! Usually swapping exercises when I get bored but racking up blocks of time in front of the TV or similar.

It's really hard for me to know what does/doesn't work, but my feeling is that it's quite a lot better than nothing but not as good as "real" ARCing. It seemed to keep my fitness up when I couldn't do normal fitness for a summer due to my finger. Of course maybe that would have happened anyway. It's a lot easier than normal training to to in front of the TV, in the car (I don't do it when driving personally), or in a hotel room with work. I've also found it useful when injured - sometimes doing more ARC seems dangerous on my joints but smashing out some powerball and weights can be quite safe (though the weights can be aggro on elbows or nerve issues). Doesn't need chalk so easier to do in the living room too.

It's also nicer on skin. Doing anything for an hour or more seems like it can get tweaky so I think swapping exercises makes sense. I'm currently doing some with Pinch Thing and Powerball, and am going to keep doing it this summer at a highish volume along with normal Aero Cap to try to build some more fitness. We'll see if it works... Or more likely I won't really be able to tell like most things 😂

[abarro81]

Worth noting, I don't see this being hugely useful for building work capacity (day fitness) for bouldering personally - I find my work capacity for easy climbing and for hard climbing seem quite distinct and the only way to build the latter is doing big days of hard climbing... But I do think it will build base endurance, so if that is a limiting factor for someone's work capacity on harder stuff maybe they'll have a different experience. My and Dave's limiting factors are probably rarely the same thing!

[monkoffunk]

Oh interesting that you are doing it! I guess the assumption was that with tonnes of other endurance stuff, the percentage gain from it would be low compared to him. I guess that might be true but it still be worthwhile. And yes it’s always a challenge to work out exactly what has the impact.

I suppose for me with big percentage gains to be had, not just fine tuning, it could be different again. Intuitively I’d agree with that final point, it seems too be too good to be true that there would be some way for me to squeeze in more top end boulders into a day without training that specially. Or just improving tactics even! Although Dave did talking about being able to link powerful moves late in a session when that would previously have been impossible. Maybe worth experimenting with adding it at low impact times, as seems reasonably low risk, and I don’t have time for proper ARC!

[abarro81]

Gains will definitely be low for me, but all gains are at the moment