[chris j]

My loved old Scarpa Instinct slippers are on their last legs after their 4th resole so I need to find a replacement.  I'm well out of touch as to what to replace them with,  I tried the instinct SR a couple of years ago and didn't really get on with them but probably bought them a size too tight at least.

The selection in the shops down here in Exeter is frankly rubbish so I'm going to have to buy on faith online and don't really want to mess around with returns unnecessarily so any suggestions would be welcome.

After so many resoles they are soft as anything but fit like a glove and are my go to for the wall and not desperate sport, so if there's any soft slipper with the same foot shape that would be ideal.

Thanks all!

[dr_botnik]

The Scarpa drago's are really soft velcro's. Bit more high end than a cheap slipper for the wall, and id size down half from the instinct slipper. But they are pretty sensitive fresh out the box

[Steve Crowe]

You could try the Instinct Velcro but go for a size up on the older slipper. The blue is softer more like the old orange slipper. I use the blue mostly indoors and the orange Velcro is slightly stiffer and I prefer that outdoors. Maybe try a pair of each.

[Steve Crowe]

The instinct is a wide fit, the drago is a narrow fit according to the Scarpa website. Robbie’s blog might be wort reading https://www.scarpa.co.uk/blog/choose-the-right-weapon-for-the-right-battles/

[Thedevonshirepiemuncher]

I've got the original orange instinct slipper and had a few pairs , never the new version as I swapped into the instinct Vs then the instinct vsr ( blue version) which is much better than the old slipper ever was (in my opinion) it has a heel that doesn't pull off but it's a sod to get in and out of till they break in then it's less annoying

Also really like the drago and personally don't think that is that narrow, they break in quite quick, I have a fairly wide foot
Much softer than the instincts but they still seem to work on all styles of climbing
Also easier to get on and off

[mrjonathanr]

Likewise, I have those shoes. Love the orange slipper. The Chimera is basically a Drago with an insert so you can edge, I like these a lot. The new chimera (grey) appears a tad broader than the yellow/red version.

I'd go for these (and will, when current shoes wear out). https://www.bananafingers.co.uk/climbing-shoes/scarpa/chimera

A word on foot shape- a lot of Scarpas narrow to a point over the second toe, like Instincts and Vapours. Irritating if your big toe is longest however. the models that narrow to the big toe are Drago/Chimera/Boostic/Mago. They refer to this as 'classic' vs 'centre' when you look at the lasts https://www.scarpa.co.uk/climbing-shoes/drago/

[Wellsy]

Drago LVs are narrower than regular Dragos so they cover a decent amount of foot sizes between them. I massively rate Dragos myself, they're so good.

[User deactivated.]

Although i've not had a pair for a while, the Instinct family are one of the best fits for my feet, so we may have similar shaped feet (narrow heel, broad forefoot?). I now climb in the following well fitting shoes:

Sportiva Theory - ultra soft and designed for indoor competition climbing but have become my favourite pair of outdoor bouldering and board shoes 
Evolv Oracle (lace) and Phantom (velcro) - good for steep edging and climb a bit like better fitting Solutions for my feet. Better quality and more durable than any Sportiva or Scarpa shoes i've owned.
Sportiva genius - In terms of stiffness and edging vs smearing, these feel somewhere in the middle of the Evolv pairs and the Sportiva Theory for me. I've found the occasional foothold where the rounded edge is like cheating but sometimes I feel compromised by it. Doesn't work well indoors for me.

None of these might be the shoes you're looking for but there's a good chance they will fit well.

I also have anasazi pinks which fit poorly. Scarpa Dragos/Chimeras/Boosters don't fit my feet well either.

[Andy F]

The Scarpa Stix

Actually, scrap that as Scarpa have stupidly stopped making them and haven't brought out a suitable replacement (stiff slipper on the FZ last) 

[mrjonathanr]

They have. The Chimera uses that last and it’s brilliant.
https://www.scarpa.co.uk/climbing-shoes/chimera/

[chris j]

Thanks everyone, I have a pair of the blue Instinct VS-Rs which are my 'good' shoes,  though they are probably a half size too small for comfort. So maybe a size bigger on those, or a pair of Chimeras (actually probably not as I'm definitely a central pointer with my  long 2nd and 3rd toes...), or there's a new Instinct slippers coming soon on the Scarpa website... or look at the Sportiva Theory.

Though most likely I'll see what comes up in the winter sales first!

[Wellsy]

I'm tempted to get Chimeras when I replace these Dragos, I've heard they're so good

[Steve Crowe]

Thanks everyone, I have a pair of the blue Instinct VS-Rs which are my 'good' shoes,  though they are probably a half size too small for comfort. So maybe a size bigger on those, or a pair of Chimeras (actually probably not as I'm definitely a central pointer with my  long 2nd and 3rd toes...), or there's a new Instinct slippers coming soon on the Scarpa website... or look at the Sportiva Theory.

Though most likely I'll see what comes up in the winter sales first!

I found when I moved up a size from the old orange Instinct slipper that they were a good fit from new and remained so. They don't appear to stretch to the point of getting baggy, I think it may be the more elasticated construction that keeps the shoes feeling like a nice fit even after a few resoles. I think you should certainly consider trying another pair of Blue Velcro but also perhaps something else a bit stiffer maybe?

[abarro81]

The new chimera (grey) appears a tad broader than the yellow/red version.

I don't know if they're broader, but the new ones are much better than the old IMO, especially the heel. The new Chimera feels a notch stiffer and more downturned than the Drago (or at least the Drago LV which I use); they're v nice for "clawing" on steep ground with your toes, and I suspect will work well on steep sport routes. If I wanted a shoe for smearing or standing on indoor volumes I would go Drago instead.

[Andy F]

They have. The Chimera uses that last and it’s brilliant.
https://www.scarpa.co.uk/climbing-shoes/chimera/

But it's not a slipper. It's got laces and a heel that doesn't fall off when you look at a hook.

[mrjonathanr]

The new chimera (grey) appears a tad broader than the yellow/red version.

I don't know if they're broader, but the new ones are much better than the old IMO, especially the heel.

My yellow ones are quite tight on my hobbit feet, but the new grey ones I tried on in Outside were a better width, so I assume that's representative. They looked excellent from a quick once over.

Andy: yes, fair point, slippers don't usually have laces!

[Fultonius]

The new chimera (grey) appears a tad broader than the yellow/red version.

I don't know if they're broader, but the new ones are much better than the old IMO, especially the heel. The new Chimera feels a notch stiffer and more downturned than the Drago (or at least the Drago LV which I use); they're v nice for "clawing" on steep ground with your toes, and I suspect will work well on steep sport routes. If I wanted a shoe for smearing or standing on indoor volumes I would go Drago instead.

Phheeewww!

I've had the old Chimeras in my quiver for ages, but never quite got round to using them much (Scotland doesn't have much sport where they'd be good), but really fell in love with them on this trip to Costa Blanco on everything that wasn't really hard edging. It's like I'm learning how to smear for the very first time!  (always been a bit of an edge-addict and smearphobe)

It got me to thinking I should start stockpiling in case they change / discontinue them....   so I'm very glad to see you think the new ones are even better! I will need to get a pair.

Do they resole ok?

[SamT]

I assume you've seen this...

https://world.scarpa.com/page/climbing-collection-structure

I got some chimera (the blue/black ones) specifically for grit.. (Outside peeps all raved about them for grit).

found them a bit narrow in the end. Having not seen the above chart at the time, it confirms they are actually a narrow fit.

My big toe is the longest, so according to the above chart, I should have some stiff Boostics and some soft Boosters in my quiver.

Still got my 3 pairs of beloved red/white original lace instincts on a resole cycle, (old and soft, through to new and still stiff) so no need to buy more boots just yet.

[M1V0]

Do they resole ok?

I've had the new Chimera resoled successfully.

I must say, I was quite disappointed with them. It was absolutely amazing when I first started wearing them. Fit was perfect out the box and my go-to for most things. Then the heel bagged out horrendously and I can barely get any power through the toes anymore. They're fine for smearing on grit and slopers because they're so soft, but anything steeper or smaller and they feel like jelly. Barely wear them anymore despite being my main shoe for about six/nine months (before they bagged).

[Fultonius]

Do they resole ok?

I've had the new Chimera resoled successfully.

I must say, I was quite disappointed with them. It was absolutely amazing when I first started wearing them. Fit was perfect out the box and my go-to for most things. Then the heel bagged out horrendously and I can barely get any power through the toes anymore. They're fine for smearing on grit and slopers because they're so soft, but anything steeper or smaller and they feel like jelly. Barely wear them anymore despite being my main shoe for about six/nine months (before they bagged).

Is this when you first started wearing them from new, or from re-soled? 

So far, the old (parrot coloured) ones are not bagged out and I'd say I'm about 1/2 through the rubber. I usually get two resoles out of Instinct Vs, so I'd hope I'd get at least one out of a Chimera?

I do find the width snugger than the (wider) instinct VSs, but if anything, for me that's a bonus. I'd say I'm halfway between the Chimera and Instinct VS width, but both work. 

I'm now thinking this thread should either be split, or split and merged with the Chimera sizing one even thought Barrows' comments were the key ones that got me started.

[SA Chris]

If in doubt, blame Barrows. For everything.

[MischaHY]

If in doubt, blame Barrows. For everything.

I'd like to blame Barrows for the General State of Everything but am unsure of where to begin for best effect.

Do you have any suggestions? For example the fact that the rain in Baden-Württemberg is keeping me off my sandstone objectives in the Schwarzwald is definitely down to Barrows if you ask me.

[SA Chris]

Definitely. He failed to produce an effective weather control machine.

[M1V0]

Do they resole ok?

I've had the new Chimera resoled successfully.

I must say, I was quite disappointed with them. It was absolutely amazing when I first started wearing them. Fit was perfect out the box and my go-to for most things. Then the heel bagged out horrendously and I can barely get any power through the toes anymore. They're fine for smearing on grit and slopers because they're so soft, but anything steeper or smaller and they feel like jelly. Barely wear them anymore despite being my main shoe for about six/nine months (before they bagged).

Is this when you first started wearing them from new, or from re-soled? 

So far, the old (parrot coloured) ones are not bagged out and I'd say I'm about 1/2 through the rubber. I usually get two resoles out of Instinct Vs, so I'd hope I'd get at least one out of a Chimera?

I do find the width snugger than the (wider) instinct VSs, but if anything, for me that's a bonus. I'd say I'm halfway between the Chimera and Instinct VS width, but both work. 

I'm now thinking this thread should either be split, or split and merged with the Chimera sizing one even thought Barrows' comments were the key ones that got me started.

They bagged out sometime in the heel post-resole. Can't remember when exactly, but again sometime post-resole they lost all tension in the front toe box. I seem to recall I had them resoled far quicker than I would have wanted, possibly because they are so soft I felt the lack of rubber quite quickly.

Could have been due to the resole they lost tension, but I don't recall making that association at the time. Pretty sure I kept wearing them a lot afterwards, so maybe not?

[Fultonius]

I do wonder if there's something in the way they're constructed using the "TPS" that relies a lot on the cupped form of the midsole/sole to create the tension, which maybe doesn't deal so well with a resole?

Either way, good to know that I shouldn't expect much more than a smeary slipper in the long term. TBH, I do so little steep lime that isn't edgey that I can deal with saving good shoes for it.

[MischaHY]

Do they resole ok?

I've had the new Chimera resoled successfully.

I must say, I was quite disappointed with them. It was absolutely amazing when I first started wearing them. Fit was perfect out the box and my go-to for most things. Then the heel bagged out horrendously and I can barely get any power through the toes anymore. They're fine for smearing on grit and slopers because they're so soft, but anything steeper or smaller and they feel like jelly. Barely wear them anymore despite being my main shoe for about six/nine months (before they bagged).

How did you size them? Could it be that half a size smaller would have resolved this after an initial break in?

[MischaHY]

Considering the original thread topic, I've recently switched to the Instinct S and Lace for my rock shoes because they fit my foot shape better in terms of width and have the narrower heel that I need. Still early days with the S but so far I'm very impressed and especially the heel is excellent for a slipper. It's sensitive but can still deliver a lot of force through small holds. The heel is softer than that of the Lace but still has enough stiffness and form to hold on edges without feeling baggy. Toehooking is excellent due to the really high rubber coverage but the perforation seems to prevent any discomfort from such a large toe patch. Really looking forward to getting them out on the sandstone and granite.

[M1V0]

How did you size them? Could it be that half a size smaller would have resolved this after an initial break in?

Good thought, but I sized them to the smallest I’ve ever fit into Instincts. So maybe? Not sure I could have gone any smaller. They never really had a breaking in period I thought, maybe because they were as soft as they were.

I seem to remember chatting to someone at the Bowderstone recently with Chimeras who shared my sentiment on them. Although maybe they were just agreeing so they could stop talking to me…

[MischaHY]

How did you size them? Could it be that half a size smaller would have resolved this after an initial break in?

Good thought, but I sized them to the smallest I’ve ever fit into Instincts. So maybe? Not sure I could have gone any smaller. They never really had a breaking in period I thought, maybe because they were as soft as they were.

I seem to remember chatting to someone at the Bowderstone recently with Chimeras who shared my sentiment on them. Although maybe they were just agreeing so they could stop talking to me…

Just a thought because you said the fit was perfect out of the box. I'm not a fan of grim tight shoes but some intial tightness usually results in a better longer term fit after an initial few sessions when the shoe feels too tight.

[Scouse D]

Considering the original thread topic, I've recently switched to the Instinct S and Lace for my rock shoes because they fit my foot shape better in terms of width and have the narrower heel that I need. Still early days with the S but so far I'm very impressed and especially the heel is excellent for a slipper. It's sensitive but can still deliver a lot of force through small holds. The heel is softer than that of the Lace but still has enough stiffness and form to hold on edges without feeling baggy. Toehooking is excellent due to the really high rubber coverage but the perforation seems to prevent any discomfort from such a large toe patch. Really looking forward to getting them out on the sandstone and granite.

I had to sell my instinct S because they felt awful on my feet. The rubber top felt clunky and inflexible and the lack of traditional rand made it very difficult to see/sense where the outside edge is. Despite having a feeling of 'power' through the toes the acid test was that when I put my VSRs back on I could do problems that I was struggling with in the instinct S.

[T_B]

I can’t make up my mind about the Instinct S. They seem tighter than the equivalent sized VS-R and I agree with Scouse’s point about not being able to see your outside edge. I also seem to slip off holds that you’re trying to pull in on on steep stuff as they’re just too stiff. Obvs the they’re great toe hooking and the heel is surprisingly good for a slipper, but I kind of wish I’d got them half a size up to just use on easy circuits/indoor routes/trad etc I.e. biffing around. Doubt I’ll buy another pair.

[MischaHY]

I can’t make up my mind about the Instinct S. They seem tighter than the equivalent sized VS-R and I agree with Scouse’s point about not being able to see your outside edge. I also seem to slip off holds that you’re trying to pull in on on steep stuff as they’re just too stiff. Obvs the they’re great toe hooking and the heel is surprisingly good for a slipper, but I kind of wish I’d got them half a size up to just use on easy circuits/indoor routes/trad etc I.e. biffing around. Doubt I’ll buy another pair.

How small did you go? I'm 1.5 sizes down and was worried initially because they felt really stiff but after a few sessions they really loosened up and got nicely flexible.

[T_B]

I take a 43.5 in all of the Instincts. The slippers definitely feel a smidge tighter than the Velcros. I’m normally a 46 in running shoes though I take 45.5 in Scarpa mountain boots.

I was hoping the slippers were going to get soft but they haven’t yet.

[Steve Crowe]

I wear size 40 in Instinct lace and both blue & Orange Velcro but I wear 41 in the newest Instinct Slipper. The heel is much improved on the previous slipper with the blue stripe. (PS. I bought 40.5 first and they are a little too tight).

I think the new Instinct slipper is a great all rounder but on reflection I prefer both Velcro Instincts by a small margin.

[MischaHY]

I take a 43.5 in all of the Instincts. The slippers definitely feel a smidge tighter than the Velcros. I’m normally a 46 in running shoes though I take 45.5 in Scarpa mountain boots.

I was hoping the slippers were going to get soft but they haven’t yet.

I wonder though if the reason they feel too stiff is because they're sized too small. If you're 2-2.5 sizes down depending on what we take as street size then that's a very tight fit and could be stopping the shoe from being able to flex in the toebox.

[Steve Crowe]

I think each upgrade to the Instinct Slipper has got more robust and I think you can buy a more comfortable fit with the worry of them stretching much.

https://www.scarpa.co.uk/climbing-shoes/instinct-s/

[Fultonius]

Any update on this?

My current pair of Instinct VS are getting worn down enough and softening enough that I'm struggling to stand on a crucial foothold on my current proj.

I could jsut get a new pair and save them, or maybe get a pair of laces? Any other thoughts for the Scarpa officinado?

Could the S be better? No toe hooks or heel hooks needed (well, a couple of heels but nothing crucial). It's much more about feeling secure on small, slippery, rounded edges and not rolling off when I force all my 80kg though 4mm of slightly sloping, slightly polished, slippery dolerite...

[Moo]

Try on a set of chimeras. If they fit your feet they’re very stiff but still feel plenty sensitive on small edges like you’re describing. I found them pretty terrible on out and out slopers though. 

[Fultonius]

I've had the Mk1 chimeras and they were nice on more smedgey, sensitive stuff but on this hold I need to out so much force through the toe, I can't imagine them being supportive/stiff enough.

I just read on UKC that there has been proper testing done on XS Grip vs Edge and that there basically a weight cutoff where performance transitions from being better with grip to edge, and it's about 70kg. That's probably why I've mainly got on best with shoes that use xsedge!

Are the new chimeras better on edges?

Might get a pair anyway as I've worn my old ones out.

[Danny]

That is interesting, as I am miles over 70kg (and 80kg for that matter) but I'm not a fan of the edge rubber. So much so that I got a pair of the OG organge VS velrcos resoled in grip before they made the blue ones.

[Danny]

I've still got a pair of the orange instinct slippers, which I love. Now twice resoled. Hoping the instinct LEs will be less of the L, and they'll rerun them in 44.5 /45 at some point.

[RobK]

The boostic might be another option. I switch between them and the chimera for routes depending if I want something stiffer or softer. I would not describe the chimera as a stiff shoe...

[Fultonius]

The boostic might be another option. I switch between them and the chimera for routes depending if I want something stiffer or softer. I would not describe the chimera as a stiff shoe...

I tried the boostic on this route (v2) and it was surprisingly terrible - either I had a badly made pair, or they actually decided to end the midsole insert about 5mm back from the edge meaning that the very tip of the big toe is horrible soft and floppy - you can just fold it in with your thumb. I love the shape of the boostic, and found them great indoors, but they just wouldn't stay on small edges for me.

A mate (who climbs there a lot) has just suggested instinct lace. I have pair 1/2 size up for trad, so maybe that's the winner - just get them in my smaller size.

[Fultonius]

That is interesting, as I am miles over 70kg (and 80kg for that matter) but I'm not a fan of the edge rubber. So much so that I got a pair of the OG organge VS velrcos resoled in grip before they made the blue ones.

What rock type do you mainly climb on?

[RobK]

A mate (who climbs there a lot) has just suggested instinct lace. I have pair 1/2 size up for trad, so maybe that's the winner - just get them in my smaller size.

I certainly find the instinct lace toe is stiffer than the boostic and might be my go-to if it was all about standing on a micro edge. For me the compromise in sensitivity has never been worth it though, but sounds like it could work for you in this situation.

[Sasquatch]

As a true lover of the instinct vs(and quite heavy-90kg), I actually found the miura vs better than the instinct lace on thin smedgy stuff.  And it fits wider feet quite well. 

[Danny]

That is interesting, as I am miles over 70kg (and 80kg for that matter) but I'm not a fan of the edge rubber. So much so that I got a pair of the OG organge VS velrcos resoled in grip before they made the blue ones.

What rock type do you mainly climb on?

Everything from low friction coastal shale, to the roughest granite on the planet, roughly seasonally moving between the two.

[Fultonius]

That is interesting, as I am miles over 70kg (and 80kg for that matter) but I'm not a fan of the edge rubber. So much so that I got a pair of the OG organge VS velrcos resoled in grip before they made the blue ones.

What rock type do you mainly climb on?

Everything from low friction coastal shale, to the roughest granite on the planet, roughly seasonally moving between the two.

Niche!