[remus]

Im trying to clear up the entry for revelations on climbing history: https://climbing-history.org/climb/310/revelations

As I understand it, when Jerry made the FA it was given 8a+ and since then holds have deteriorated, it's gotten harder and is now considered 8b. I guess it's going to be one of those 'line in the sand' sorta things, but does anyone know roughly when it went from being considered 8a+ to 8b?

[kc]

At the time it was given E7 7a and the French conversion would have been a bit rough especially given its bouldery nature.
The Peak supplement 1991 E7 7a /8a.
RockFax 1992 E7 7a/8a+
BMC 1999 8b

When I did it 21 years ago I thought it was overgraded but was young and progressing which is always a bad way of assessing the difficulty of a route.
Rumour has it that blow torching in the 90s contributed to the deterioration of the pocket. Not sure if that is true.

[crimpingandy]

If I remember correctly John Hart snapped the lip off the pocket in the v early 90’s. This made the hard 1st move harder and even more specific being a 3 finger half crimp. Considered to be stout F7c+

Comparatively few people could do the move even those climbing a few grades harder. It either felt impossible or not that bad for the few it suited.

Someone found a foot lock (maybe Ian D or Ste Mac) which whilst still hard was sig. easier and suddenly the route got quite a few repeats. Ironically it got upgraded after this.

I remember Christian & Dawids wild jump move. Quite cool.

[kc]

Yeah that jump was ace. As soon as I found it I sat on the rope and told Dawid to try the jump whilst I rested. In probably less than 10 minutes we were both sat smugly on the larva flats below. Seem to remember everyone else turning their noses up at our ridiculous sequence. Many successful Mecca applicants still get shut down by the mighty Revelations.

[andy popp]

Rumour has it that blow torching in the 90s contributed to the deterioration of the pocket. Not sure if that is true.

This was certainly the story I heard back then - but, likewise, no idea if it was true.

[Tony]

Im trying to clear up the entry for revelations on climbing history: https://climbing-history.org/climb/310/revelations

As I understand it, when Jerry made the FA it was given 8a+ and since then holds have deteriorated, it's gotten harder and is now considered 8b. I guess it's going to be one of those 'line in the sand' sorta things, but does anyone know roughly when it went from being considered 8a+ to 8b?

As with much of climbing, it's fairly arbitrary. As such, attempting to ascribe undue precision is a rather pointless endeavour.

[shark]

Had on offline discussion about this last year with Keith Sharples, Steve Mac and Paul Reeve and Paul also quizzed Jerry.

I’ve just had a look at the conversation again. Fair bit of confusion but this is what I gleaned. The lip of the pocket blew very early on and it seems that was a consequence of blowtorch.

Jerry attempted a sika repair but that quickly came off (maybe when Rob Barker pulled on it?). Jerry climbed it with the pocket in the poorer current state.

Also at some point early on Zippy lined the back of the pocket with sika to make it less prone to seepage.

It’s strange that it’s referred to as a pocket as it’s more of a slot really.

[Ru]

I guess it's going to be one of those 'line in the sand' sorta things, but does anyone know roughly when it went from being considered 8a+ to 8b?

The BMC guide was the first to formally give it 8b I think, but it wasn't really a consensus. I remember being quite vocal about it being 8a+ when I did it in about 2001. Like Kristian, I was probably just young and wrong, but on the other hand there were/are a few other nearby things at around the same difficulty that were/are stuck at 8a+ - Boot Boys, PUTP, Love of Money, for example - but they've since all either been upgraded or mooted for an upgrade.

[Kingy]

Zippy once told me that the hold post break made the move 15% harder than before. No idea how this was tested.... 

[remus]

Thanks for the knowledge everyone, particularly the first hand accounts shark.

To summarise, it sounds like the pocket deteriorated relatively early on but then a grade change was fairly slow to materialise. It sounds like it was probably somewhere around hard 8a/soft 8a+ before the pocket broke and is now probably around hard 8a+/soft 8b.

[shark]

It is a an unusual route that’s particularly hard to grade revolving around the knacky boulder problem start and the ‘pocket’ in particular.

The pocket has a lip above it which means you can’t crimp it and some people are woeful at dragging. It’s also tight so the fat fingered struggle as well. I think Will Atkinson and Adam Lincoln boshed it out in a day yet Caff had a mare on it. I belayed Adam Harrison on it and he must be the same size as Caff so I don’t think it’s especially a height thing. Off course Toby Roberts did it when he was minute.

In the BMC guide we went with 8b but in the text I qualified it with “The grade arithmetic is Font 7Cish for the start followed by a 7c route = soft 8b. Maybe”

[Kingy]

Once described in the early 90's as having the hardest move on a UK route that isn't Hubble. How things have changed!

Apparently Malc Taylor used to piss the start when trying what became Rage.

[Teaboy]

 Did Ron Fawcett ever repeat it fully? There was an advert with him on it but I also heard he did it with a different start?

[Kingy]

Yep, Big Ron did it but said he found it really hard. I don't know which way he did the move but have heard that he came in from the left, dunno if this is even any easier, even if true.

[shark]

Yep, Big Ron did it but said he found it really hard. I don't know which way he did the move but have heard that he came in from the left, dunno if this is even any easier, even if true.

That’s how it was reported at the time. God knows how he managed that