[jwi]

The other day we had a curious incident while rappelling down Tranxène 5. On the second rap the rope (half rope, fairly used) tied itself around the quick link in anchor. When I finally managed to get back up to the belay I took a picture, this is what it looked like:



The line of the rappel is very clean. The rock has no big features along the line and is steep enough that you need to clip two bolts on the way down to reach the belay. We did the rap a few days prior without any issues (on a different set of half ropes).

A long time ago I read a story about someone this happened to as well (and they were not rapping down a route, so they got into some fairly difficult problems).

I am curious if this is just one of these things that happens if you climb long enough, or was it somehow our fault? Has this happened to anyone of you?

[macca7]

Thought it was just me!

Had exactly the same thing happen last summer. Pulled the ropes through a krab we had lowered off at the top and it tied it's self into a single fig 8 about 2 foot from the end and was stuck solid.

Luckily had another rope to get back up there with!

[HaeMeS]

The same happened to me several times, mostly an overhand knot like yours and once a perfect clove hitch around a branch (impossible!) 20 meters to the right of the route (strong wind). Bound to happen even if you do everything right.

[Probes]

Same happened to me, abbing off the Cordier pillar on the G Charmoz. Only difference was it had over hand knotted the very end of the rope, so basically the melted crust on end of rope was stopping it pulling through. Still get shivers thinking about it. I'd prussiced up it, I did use the spare 9mm as back up essentially leading on it, but may be stuck 2 cams in on the full rope length. This was all around pitch 16. A little flick when I got to belay and out it came 

[Will Hunt]

Same happened to me, abbing off the Cordier pillar on the G Charmoz. Only difference was it had over hand knotted the very end of the rope, so basically the melted crust on end of rope was stopping it pulling through. Still get shivers thinking about it. I'd prussiced up it, I did use the spare 9mm as back up essentially leading on it, but may be stuck 2 cams in on the full rope length. This was all around pitch 16. A little flick when I got to belay and out it came 

Lock and log this thread before I sell my rack 

[petejh]

Happened to me once or twice but can't remember any epics. Definitely didn't result in a russian roulette jug! Good to raise awareness.

[haydn jones]

 :off:happened to my friend next to me whilst in riglos and saw it happen at raven tor when pulling the rope down off tin of/sardine. So twice in 10 years of climbing.

[Johnny Brown]

I've seen various knots tie themselves while teaching rigging rope access pull-throughs, typically that includes throwing them up from the floor though.

Having had lesser jams I am in the habit of ensuring I pull the strand nearer the rock as this has less potential to trap the rope between anchor and rock, which is the opposite of how it appears in your picture. This should also make it less likely to impart a twist to the final section of rope which is presumably what incited your knot.

The only time I've had to climb back to the anchor the rope was wrapped around a cactus.

[cheque]

I’ve also a few weird self-knotting rope things over the years, never resulting in an epic though thankfully.

Same happened to me, abbing off the Cordier pillar on the G Charmoz. Only difference was it had over hand knotted the very end of the rope, so basically the melted crust on end of rope was stopping it pulling through. Still get shivers thinking about it. I'd prussiced up it, I did use the spare 9mm as back up essentially leading on it, but may be stuck 2 cams in on the full rope length. This was all around pitch 16. A little flick when I got to belay and out it came 

Shades of the all-time classic “white peaches” story there.

In a less dramatic but similar vein, two of my mates, one extremely cautious, the other with a more prosaic attitude to risk, climbed in Morocco once and got one of their ropes stuck while pulling it down.

One was adamant that it was stuck so fast that he should prusik up it and free it in preference to abbing the rest of the route on one doubled rope and returning in the morning to climb half of the route again to retrieve it. He was overruled by his more cautious partner.

On reaching it the next day they found that only the very end of the rope was stuck in the top of a crack.  When you pull the full length of a dynamic rope to try and free it so much of the force of the pull must be lost in the stretch that you can fool yourself into thinking it’s stuck much more securely than it actually is I reckon.

[jwi]

Having had lesser jams I am in the habit of ensuring I pull the strand nearer the rock as this has less potential to trap the rope between anchor and rock, which is the opposite of how it appears in your picture. This should also make it less likely to impart a twist to the final section of rope which is presumably what incited your knot.

Yeah, I normally have the habit of always threading the free end of rope tied together from behind when doing multiple rappels. This must have been imparted on me by someone such a long time ago that I could not remember the reason. This time I must have threaded it the other way around.

I also have had the rope tie itself around a branch which then got stuck in the chain. That feels more normal thought (and at that time we could climb a lot easier ground to get back up to the chain).

[Muenchener]

On reaching it the next day they found that only the very end of the rope was stuck in the top of a crack.  When you pull the full length of a dynamic rope to try and free it so much of the force of the pull must be lost in the stretch that you can fool yourself into thinking it’s stuck much more securely than it actually is I reckon.

I had something similar in the Kaisergebirge, fortunately on the last pitch so I could ponder what to do from the comfort of the ground. Pulled for a while from various directions, nothing doing. Had enough rope to climb back up - on a single skinny half rope, nervously - to level with the stuck place but then found I couldn't traverse across to it. Downclimbed, carefully. Decided the stuck rope was a write-off anyway if I couldn't get it back, so damaging it would be a lesser evil. Attached prusik & pulled really hard. Out pops & down falls totally unscathed rope end; still using the same rope on my occasional alpine forays to this day.

[duncan]

Having had lesser jams I am in the habit of ensuring I pull the strand nearer the rock as this has less potential to trap the rope between anchor and rock, which is the opposite of how it appears in your picture. This should also make it less likely to impart a twist to the final section of rope which is presumably what incited your knot.

I discovered this empirically! The pull rope on top locks the rope underneath like a belay device in guide mode.

Faced with a sketchy Prusik back up a rope jammed for unknown reason, you can self-belay yourself with a loose clove-hitch on the rope you’re climbing. If possible, clip the rope you’ve just climbed into bolts or gear you place yourself as you go back up.

[Paul B]

Having had lesser jams I am in the habit of ensuring I pull the strand nearer the rock as this has less potential to trap the rope between anchor and rock, which is the opposite of how it appears in your picture. This should also make it less likely to impart a twist to the final section of rope which is presumably what incited your knot.

Very important on the old ring bolts in Meteora! There were two bolts on this particular instance and I did know better but on many of the towers that isn't the case and some don't descend routes.

WRT the OP, yes a few times. Once on a brand new rope in Kaly which thankfully the person next to us sorted incredibly quickly as they topped out. It's also happened to me in the Verdon with a terrifyingly small tail on the knot. I can't remember how we rectified that but I'm thankful I'm light at times.

[mde]

3x so far in my "career"... always on steep abseils where the rope runs through very fast.

On 2 occasions, just reclimbed the pitch on one strand. The third time, it was at Wendenstöcke on a separate abseil belay. Fortunately a team was just following behind, else we'd need to call the rescue.

[Probes]

Pretty much like mine MDE, but with out the extra twist. Terrifying.

This is like discovering the large amount of climbers who suffer vertigo... another uncommon common climbing phenomenon!   

[jwi]

3x so far in my "career"... always on steep abseils where the rope runs through very fast.

On 2 occasions, just reclimbed the pitch on one strand. The third time, it was at Wendenstöcke on a separate abseil belay. Fortunately a team was just following behind, else we'd need to call the rescue.

Uncannily similar knots.

We were climbing in a team of three and had doubles but from everything I have heard about Tranxène I did not fancy going up any of its pitches on a single strand. I lead up on whatever was left until there were two bolts reasonably close together, rebelayed and pulled up the seconds then did some pretty uncomfortable factor-2 risking climbing up from the improvised belay.

Just as we topped out Alan Carne strolled by. Apparently it never happend to him in 41 years of climbing in the Gorge, so there is that.

[Paul B]

Does that have anything to do with his static that reaches from top to bottom? 

[jwi]

Very likely!

[Johnny Brown]

Uncannily similar knots.

Indeed. And less scope for a rock friction element.

Pulled the ropes through a krab we had lowered off at the top and it tied it's self into a single fig 8 about 2 foot from the end

Interesting that they are not overhands. I wonder if the simpler knot is less likely to form, or less likely to set tight? Research project there for someone!

[remus]

Pulled the ropes through a krab we had lowered off at the top and it tied it's self into a single fig 8 about 2 foot from the end

Interesting that they are not overhands. I wonder if the simpler knot is less likely to form, or less likely to set tight? Research project there for someone!

Sharper bend required in the rope perhaps, meaning it's less likely to happen by chance?

[Paul B]

The last photo in this thread looks strikingly similar to the rope I've had the issue with!