[Fiend]

I want to see if I can improve the physical side of my climbing a bit (since the most important thing as you get older is to keep getting stronger and stronger and smash out those strength test PBs), and have decided the best way is to set myself up as a target for public humiliation on here for everyone to mock me, specifically suggest unsuitable advice, tell me I'm doing it wrong, etc etc, let's see if we can be big and brave and resist doing that eh  . But on the off chance anyone is actually able to help...

I would like recommendations for climbing coaches who could help me improve how I train for the physical side of climbing (strength, power, endurance, etc etc, plus injury avoidance, recovery, maybe even nutrition timing etc), and specifically work within the context of the physical issues I have, plus my general intolerance for extremely rigid and boring barrows-style plans.

I need someone who can give me general advice, guidance and concepts that will work for me in particular, and regular monitoring / checking-up on potential progress and issues I have with it. I'd prefer someone who is within an hour of so of Manchester so I could hopefully meet at a wall for check-ups / analysis.


What I do NOT want:
1. Anyone who says "yes your power to weight could be improved, do loads of CV and lose weight" because this is not physically possible.
2. Anyone who says "yes your power to weight could be improved, go on this wacky keto diet and lose weight" because I'm not prepared to risk feeling sick and ill all the time with my digestion.
3. Any extremely rigid round-peg-square-hole Lattice type plan.
4. Any long-distance "buy this PDF of a 16 week specific untailored plan and get on with it" malarkey.

YES I fucking well know that some of these, especially the barrows-level snore-fest training, could be the most optimum, but if I'm going to despise it and not stick with it, there's absolutely no point in suggesting it. A training method that is 50% effective but I can stick with 100% of the time is much better than a training method that is 100% effective but I can only force myself to do 25% of the time.

Any helpful suggestions appreciated.

[UnkArl]

Gresh

[Fiend]

Who? Is he part of "Lattice" or "ClimbGB"?

[abarro81]

It strikes me that you understand very little about what coaches will generally already know, how I train (the approach doesn't need to be particularly rigid), or how remote but personalised training plans can work (again, can be very non rigid with a good coach). So I won't suggest anyone because you'd probably be a dismissive PITA client 

[Fiend]

If you'd like to help out, feel free to explain / educate a bit more about what I don't understand. As for the coaches, I'm sure if I get in touch with someone and they think I'd be an unsuitable client, that they could suggest that themselves.

[abarro81]

Don't start nuthin won't be nuthin...

[shark]

John Kettle

[duncan]

I've only seen one coach, John Kettle, who I thought was very good and would see again if there was less distance between us. It was a movement-focused session at my request but he pointed out some physiological issues unprompted and I'm sure he'd be capable of covering what you're after.

The challenge, as we've discussed, is finding someone able to tailor their assessment and advice to your specific aims and needs. Many coaches (and therapist - its a similar role) have their way. If their way happens to fit then everyone is happy, but it often doesn't...

Different people have different attitudes to remote learning. It's not for me, either as a provider or client/pupil/patient.

[shurt]

Andrew McVittie is a great physio. He does coaching as well although never used him for that but he is a really good egg which I think counts for a lot. He treated me via zoom during lockdown and it worked really well. His business is called process physiotherapy.

Worth an email or two,  he's based in the Lakes

[mrjonathanr]

John K us in the Lakes, Shurt, but Andrew works out of Boulder Uk in Preston. At least I hope he does, that’s where my appt with him in a week is taking place.

Pretty impressed with him via emails so far, was going to suggest he might be good/in driving distance for you Fiend.

Alternatively just join the Chapel and then you can bugger your elbows in no time, líke me.

[teestub]

If you want to read something (rather than seeing someone) that would seem to tick a lot of boxes in terms of lack of rigidity, and also give you a basis of understanding in the different facets of training, then I thought Bechtel’s Logical Progression was good for this.

[shurt]

Andrew works out of Boulder Uk in Preston. At least I hope he does, that’s where my appt with him in a week is taking place.

Sorry yep you're right so ideal for Fiend

[Fiend]

Cheers. I know Biscuit already and have had some fun days out with him, and indeed saw him as a physio for golfer's elbow last year.

Kettle could be a good option despite being based in the Lakes, Kendal Wall is 1:30 at quiet times.




P.S. Abarro81, I should point out that although my tone was irreverent and banterous, it wasn't mocking you nor that sort of focused training plan, it was mocking it's likely lack of suitability for myself. TBH I wish I was the sort of person who had the self-discipline and boredom threshold to do, and benefit from, very specific and methodical training.

[spidermonkey09]

 Haven't used him for coaching but another vote for Andy at Boulder UK. If his communication is the same for his coaching as his physio I think he'd be spot on.

Edit, just saw you already know him but worth leaving for info.

[Fultonius]

Cheers. I know Biscuit already and have had some fun days out with him, and indeed saw him as a physio for golfer's elbow last year.

Kettle could be a good option despite being based in the Lakes, Kendal Wall is 1:30 at quiet times.




P.S. Abarro81, I should point out that although my tone was irreverent and banterous, it wasn't mocking you nor that sort of focused training plan, it was mocking it's likely lack of suitability for myself. TBH I wish I was the sort of person who had the self-discipline and boredom threshold to do, and benefit from, very specific and methodical training.

Have you considered some mental / life coaching to explore your self-inflicted barriers to other forms of training?

"It's not for me" and "I can't stick to X,Y,Z" will clearly be based on your life experience and "knowing thyself", but that doesn't mean there's no room for change.

Perhaps exploring your own inner barriers might be more fruitful? Or help in tandem?

[shark]

If I was to write a customised programme for Fiend (sorry, you can’t afford me) then to get him in the right mindset it would start with: “Imagine you are the Orc warrior champion of the Kingdom of Esoterica. To save the kingdom you have to gain the strength to overthrow the Lord of the Trolls and the endurance to chase down the Giant Mangoat up the treacherous sheer cliffs of Gordalia. This will involve personal hardship and suffering accompanied by the soundtrack of loud thrash metal”

[Wood FT]

I’ll coach you pal. What are your aims?

[Fiend]

If I was to write a customised programme for Fiend (sorry, you can’t afford me) then to get him in the right mindset it would start with: “Imagine you are the Orc warrior champion of the Kingdom of Esoterica. To save the kingdom you have to gain the strength to overthrow the Lord of the Trolls and the endurance to chase down the Giant Mangoat up the treacherous sheer cliffs of Gordalia. This will involve personal hardship and suffering accompanied by the soundtrack of loud thrash metal”

Now we're talking!! How much belaying on Raven Tor choss / lockpicking combo-cracking do I have to do to get your rates down??

[Hoseyb]

Another bump for kettle, however if we do ever get to actually climb this winter I'll be happy to give some feedback. Again I'm primarily a movement coach, but as a self confessed loather of treadmill style training I have a few ideas how to beast up in a less monotonous style.

[TobyD]

P.S. Abarro81, I should point out that although my tone was irreverent and banterous, it wasn't mocking you nor that sort of focused training plan, it was mocking it's likely lack of suitability for myself. TBH I wish I was the sort of person who had the self-discipline and boredom threshold to do, and benefit from, very specific and methodical training.

Reading this thread with some interest, since I'm considering coaching myself, before I give up climbing altogether; although given how shit I am at cycling this isn't that much of a risk.

Fiend, Alex really isn't that prescriptive with training, sure he's obsessive, weird etc, but which climbers aren't?
You might be surprised if you dipped into training in a similar way I think. I've seen a lot of people noticeably less successful than Alex train in a very prescriptive manner, and not get better possibly because being willing to adapt and constantly challenge yourself is surely the route to improvement rather than trying to treat your body as a machine, which it isn't. The exact number of reps or seconds is very unlikely to matter in the long run compared to being willing to constantly fail, and having the application to adapt and learn. This is definitely what I'm worst at!

[lagerstarfish]

It shouldn't be too complicated for UKB to put together a playlist of heckling and supportive advice videos.
Put the list on shuffle.
Done.

[petejh]

I saw a coach once for a day about 12 years ago, it was me and a mate who’d had the day booked as a present from his wife. We met the coach in the peak and went climbing in cheedale. He asked us to have a go on various routes some within our grade and some just a little too hard for us to do in a sesh.
Was quite impressive how quickly the coach picked up on various aspects of our natural strengths/weaknesses, both in movement technique and fitness/power. He gave good feedback and advice during the day and then followed up a couple of days later with an email record of his observations, plus recommendations for how to train our weaknesses. Mine were basically - practise hip flexibility by sticking my toe up on something progressively higher and pretending it’s a small foothold that I need to step up on while keeping hips in close, and do lots of foot-on campussing to improve my PE.

It worked, and now my weaknesses hold me back on higher grades. Coach was Steve Mc-something..

Fiend your movement technique is already really good from what I’ve seen of you climb. Boring foot-on campussing it is for you.

[mrjonathanr]

Honestly Fiend, I think taking on board * the advice here (some similarity with Bechtel, but more applicable to your specific goal) and finding a really good board you can work at like the Chapel 45* will take you a long way towards achieving what you’re after.


* unintentional pun

[Fiend]

Thank you for the further replies.

Fiend, Alex really isn't that prescriptive with training, sure he's obsessive, weird etc, but which climbers aren't?
You might be surprised if you dipped into training in a similar way I think. I've seen a lot of people noticeably less successful than Alex train in a very prescriptive manner, and not get better possibly because being willing to adapt and constantly challenge yourself is surely the route to improvement rather than trying to treat your body as a machine, which it isn't. The exact number of reps or seconds is very unlikely to matter in the long run compared to being willing to constantly fail, and having the application to adapt and learn. This is definitely what I'm worst at!

I'm just going by what I've read on here including from the horses mouth. I'm pretty sure there's a full range of training protocols available from very prescriptive ones with timed pure rung-based training sessions on an overall weekly/monthly plan, to more flexible ones about general concepts and training principles. The latter will simply work better for me. HOWEVER I do agree with the importance of "being willing to adapt and constantly challenge yourself" - that's exactly why I started doing inimical stuff like the Moonboard, which I took to like a cat to water, and also doing linked circuits on the Depot stamina board, which felt perversely sadomasochistic but when I felt the same sort of pump on routes outside, it inspired me to continue. I think further challenging my body could be useful, hence exactly why I'm looking for a professional to guide me with that. BUT there has got to be a balance with what I personally am able to tolerate mentally overall.

MRJR, will look at that video in a bit, ta.

[Will Hunt]

Fiend your movement technique is already really good from what I’ve seen of you climb.

I find this a very interesting statement. When I have climbed with Fiend or watched him climb on videos, I've sometimes caught myself thinking "huh. This is guy who wobbles up death choss for a laugh?"
Sometimes the Fiend is wont to cut loose for no reason. This happened at Witches, I think, and it was also his preferred sequence for swinging his left leg over and up to a high rockover at the end of the hard climbing on Metal Guru (hint: there's ample footholds to step the feet through nicely and do it static which helps if you're tired at that point - which you probably will be on redpoint). It's a really nice, flamboyant thing to watch but it must be crap for performance.

And mental coaching would probably help The Fiend with the negative self-belief that he has. "I can't follow a training plan. My power to weight is shit. I wish I was good at being skinny. I'm not going well at the moment it's these problems that are soft. I wish I had a longer neck. I wish I had a bigger cock. blah blah blah".
Read what you've written - you're setting out from the start all the stuff you can't do. I found it very inspirational to hear MacLeod say that he just decided one day that he was going to complete his training plan, and that as soon as he did this he realised that he could climb the things he dreamed of climbing if he could only decide to do what was necessary to get there (or words to that effect).