[James Malloch]

I was trying a problem (elephantitus) yesterday and the last move was being matched on a decent sloper with hands touching.

First of all I was using bad beta and should have moved my foot first in retrospect, but…

I was cutting loose whilst matched on the lip of a steep roof so I needed to compose myself and then accurately put my toe on an edge.

I’ve found that I really struggle in this position and never really wondered why.

When in a close grip I feel a lot less stable and also feel like I have to have my arms bent a lot more than in a wider grip. I didn’t feel like I could be accurate with my feet due to stability problems.

I know chest is engaged more when in a closer grip, but I wondered if anyone had any experience of addressing this weakness? Is it just likely that the chest is weaker? Or I’m just not used to the position? Or something else that I’m not aware of?

I didn’t feel great on the sloper in full sun which didn’t help, but it’s definitely something I’ve been aware of In the past as well.

[M1V0]

Matched positions typically mean a really narrow shoulder position, so you can't use muscles in the shoulder to stabilise yourself properly. Bringing your elbows out is an attempt to bring in some more of that shoulder stabiliser, I suspect.

[James Malloch]

Matched positions typically mean a really narrow shoulder position, so you can't use muscles in the shoulder to stabilise yourself properly. Bringing your elbows out is an attempt to bring in some more of that shoulder stabiliser, I suspect.

That makes sense, thanks. Where does the main stability come from in such a position?

Is it more chest/core issue? If anyone has any tips on how to increase stability in this position it would be appreciated.

[SA Chris]

narrow hand pull ups?

[nai]

Matched positions typically mean a really narrow shoulder position, so you can't use muscles in the shoulder to stabilise yourself properly. Bringing your elbows out is an attempt to bring in some more of that shoulder stabiliser, I suspect.

That makes sense, thanks. Where does the main stability come from in such a position?

Is it more chest/core issue? If anyone has any tips on how to increase stability in this position it would be appreciated.

Engage your shoulders and pull from you mid back

[ducko]

Is this the case with crimpers also? It could be that you may just be weaker on slopers, narrow pull ups wound help for sure and possibly doing wrist curls or pull ups on slopers to increase wrist strength

[User deactivated.]

If I'm envisaging the position properly it could be a lack of overhead mobility (almost certainly going to be poor if you don't train it as a climber).

Stand side on in front of a mirror and keeping a hollow core (abs engaged), raise your arms and see if you can get your arms vertical, forming a 180° angle with your body. If not then when you're hanging below the hold you're actually hanging out from it requiring more finger strength to hold on. It's easy to cheat this test by compensating with an arc in the back, but you won't be able to do this while climbing with your feet on and core engaged.

Additionally, narrow compression, particularly overhead is more front delt strength than chest. Ring flyes, are mostly useless here as at the top of the fly (in narrow compression) there is negligible force (basic newtonian mechanics). Overhead pressing movements will likely build more strength here.

[M1V0]

Matched positions typically mean a really narrow shoulder position, so you can't use muscles in the shoulder to stabilise yourself properly. Bringing your elbows out is an attempt to bring in some more of that shoulder stabiliser, I suspect.

That makes sense, thanks. Where does the main stability come from in such a position?

Is it more chest/core issue? If anyone has any tips on how to increase stability in this position it would be appreciated.

Engage your shoulders and pull from you mid back

What Nai says. Depending on the angle of the climb (assuming steep enough), try and pull the shoulders back and down as if you were trying to make your shoulder blades touch behind you. That's a good way to engage the back.

Chest comes more into play for compression moves, so useful where your hands aren't side-by-side. Core can help in the cutting loose to slow it down more and becoming more controlled.

I imagine you could work on this by building up general tension and shoulder strength through presses. Maybe even a vague replication of the movement by doing low rows matching hands on a single ring?

[abarro81]

Pretty standard for people to be weaker when too narrow IMO, it stops you twisting into the hold and getting that feeling of engagement through the arm/shoulder. Some people are an exception to this, in my experience they're usually v strong on f3 drag. For most people if you campus f3 drag you'll get the same feeling of lack of engagement due to the change in wrist, elbow and shoulder position. Not sure how to fix it, but I'm not convinced it's via standard scapular-shug/shoulder-engagement type exercises that some seem to be implying, though I may be misinterpreting the posts (you can be v strong at shoulder engagements but still not like being narrow). Narrows rows sounds worth a punt for something to try...

[Stu Littlefair]

Alex might be onto something with his F3 observation.

When you're in a narrow position it tends to put more weight on one side of the hand. Whether this is the front half or the back half can depend on the hold orientation I think.

To some extent better shoulder mobility can mitigate this, so working on shoulder mobility will help, but also look at fingerboarding with front/back 2 or 3.

[James Malloch]

narrow hand pull ups?

Never actually tried these until yesterday and I’m shit at them! Definitely something to start doing…

[James Malloch]

If I'm envisaging the position properly it could be a lack of overhead mobility (almost certainly going to be poor if you don't train it as a climber).

Stand side on in front of a mirror and keeping a hollow core (abs engaged), raise your arms and see if you can get your arms vertical, forming a 180° angle with your body. If not then when you're hanging below the hold you're actually hanging out from it requiring more finger strength to hold on. It's easy to cheat this test by compensating with an arc in the back, but you won't be able to do this while climbing with your feet on and core engaged.

Additionally, narrow compression, particularly overhead is more front delt strength than chest. Ring flyes, are mostly useless here as at the top of the fly (in narrow compression) there is negligible force (basic newtonian mechanics). Overhead pressing movements will likely build more strength here.

I’ve tried that this morning and I can get to 180 degrees, but it does feel tight at the end of the range.

I’ve been going to some gym classes recently (only going to ones with OH press, bench or squat type exercises (all the ones I ignore) so hopefully that’s helping in some ways.

I don’t use rings either but imagine I’d be awful at flies…

[James Malloch]

Pretty standard for people to be weaker when too narrow IMO, it stops you twisting into the hold and getting that feeling of engagement through the arm/shoulder. Some people are an exception to this, in my experience they're usually v strong on f3 drag. For most people if you campus f3 drag you'll get the same feeling of lack of engagement due to the change in wrist, elbow and shoulder position. Not sure how to fix it, but I'm not convinced it's via standard scapular-shug/shoulder-engagement type exercises that some seem to be implying, though I may be misinterpreting the posts (you can be v strong at shoulder engagements but still not like being narrow). Narrows rows sounds worth a punt for something to try...

Thanks, Alex (+ Stu and M1V0). That’s an interesting way to to look at it. I’ve always thought I was okay on narrow rows (I certainly used to be when I was going to the gym 10 years ago…) but no idea how how I would be these days.

As mentioned in another post, I have since discovered I’m absolutely shite at Close grip pull ups so that’s another obvious area to start with.

I’ll have a play with some front/back three drags. When you say campus in your post, I guess you mean just on rungs? I’ve some rungs on my board so I’ll test that out in my next session.