[Ged]

I just watched the footage of Mr eder doing rainshadow. That kneebar! Does that ruin raindogs fir evermore?!

[Wood FT]

I think it would be quite far 'off-sequence' from Raindogs as that's where Rainshadow hopefuls break right out of the original route. Happy to be corrected though. I heard Steve Mac had used this kneebar too?

[Stu Littlefair]

Steve definitely didn’t use that kneebar on rainshadow. I’m pretty sure he didn’t use it on rainman either.

Looks like a great rest - good spot Eder!

[Adam Lincoln]

Looks like a great rest - good spot Eder!

He found a great one on Power Ranger too. Another one you have had a vested interest in.

[spidermonkey09]

Think Luke Dawson found this one. I haven't seen anyone but Eder actually rest in it yet though. Theres another, poorer one on Batman/Rainman where Eder can get both his hands off for 30 seconds but its clearly not great as Josh Ibbertson fell out of it on redpoint a few weeks ago! As with all Eder's kneebars across Yorkshire its hard to get a read on how good they really are!

[Kingy]

What I suppose the new Raindogs kneebar would open up would be the possibility of climbing the 'chain clip' version of the route, currently graded 8a+ ish, except with a hands off rest (if its as good as it looks, which is a moot point!) This may or may not be easier than the normal version of Raindogs. Most ppl who are projecting Raindogs haven't been psyched on this due to the lure of the 'chain grab' finish 

Topic split needed?

[danm]

The kneebar/chain clip version could be called Rainy Dogs.

(Please don't hate me....)

[Will Hunt]

Apologies if this is all common knowledge to the cognoscenti. Or if it's all been answered above if you have the knowledge to put together what's already been said. I've never really looked at Raindogs in detail but the talk of a kneebar intrigued me and I wondered whether it might make another classic 7c to add to my list of things to try this season.

Eder goes right from the little overlaps just under the fourth bolt, rests at the knee, and then climbs directly up to the right of the Raindogs lower-off to access the extension.
Standard Raindogs plugs straight up past the fourth clip to the chain grab.

So it does seem like the knee might be a bit off line for Standard Raindogs. Is the line that Eder takes the same sequence as used on Raindogs sans chain grab? Or does that follow the standard route with a final lock off to clip the belay?
Without knowing the route and that bit of the wall I don't know whether you might have to reverse from the rest back to the holds under the overlaps or whether you could climb direct from the rest to a chain grab finish on the left-hand lower-off.

[Kingy]

Raindogs sans chain grab climbs to the 4th bolt then traverses a move or 2 right then goes up so you can lean back and left to clip the chain. It looks to be similar if not identical to what Eder does in the video. I don't think it would make sense to go to the kneebar then reverse back left into the chain grab version of Raindogs. You may as well carry on up and clip the chain. The moves are not that hard compared to what you have just climbed, just a bit more sustained perhaps than standard Raindogs.

As far as I see it there is no such thing as 'off line' on a sport route outdoors as long as you are clipping the bolts on the route and the lower off. So if you were to do the chain clip version that would be Raindogs same as the chain grab version. The fact that the moves are different is not important as sequences vary all the time on sport routes whether you are climbing the same bit of rock or slightly off to the side. I totally respect it if people want to eliminate holds at any stage, that is entirely a personal choice, its all good! 

[Will Hunt]

That all makes sense, thanks Ted.
I completely agree with what you say about not eliminating holds. I wasn't trying to imply that going right into the rest would make it not Raindogs (though I think if you were going into a different route that would probably be different), just trying to differentiate between the two sequences for clarity.

[Kingy]

Cheers Will. I think ppl will always be attracted by the iconic chain grab for historical reasons. The chain clip version is just an excuse to do the route again and get another tick  There is always the 'Sheffield finish' which if memory serves involved moving out right under the 4th bolt then gastoning the final pinch with your LH and then grabbing the chain. This got given 7c+ probably just for good pub talk though, seems just as hard as the original! 

[Will Hunt]

There is always the 'Sheffield finish' which if memory serves involved moving out right under the 4th bolt then gastoning the final pinch with your LH and then grabbing the chain. This got given 7c+ probably just for good pub talk though

Those fucking Peakies!

[shark]

There is always the 'Sheffield finish' which if memory serves involved moving out right under the 4th bolt then gastoning the final pinch with your LH and then grabbing the chain. This got given 7c+ probably just for good pub talk though

Those fucking Peakies!

 

[Andy F]

Cheers Will. I think ppl will always be attracted by the iconic chain grab for historical reasons. The chain clip version is just an excuse to do the route again and get another tick  There is always the 'Sheffield finish' which if memory serves involved moving out right under the 4th bolt then gastoning the final pinch with your LH and then grabbing the chain. This got given 7c+ probably just for good pub talk though, seems just as hard as the original! 

It's definitely only 7c+ the Sheffield way. Just like Vogue and Renaissance still 7c+ 

[Kingy]

Had a run up Raindogs this avo and roadtested the kneebar. Its defo hands off with a pair of stiff shoes (We're not talking as good as the Ben's Roof one but fairly decent). Quite awkward to get into as the RF is high and the set up moves are on crap smears and your hands are in the way of your knee (usual kneebar shenanigans). Once you're in that kneebar you ain't going back left!  Difficult to see how anyone intent only on the chain clip version would need it as its past most of the hard stuff on this version. For Rainshadow/ Man candidates only! (A bit like the kneebar on the final tufa of Wasted Youth is only useful for resting on Power Ranger.)

[Rob F]

Thank you for that sympathetic write up.

It helps soften the blow to all those youngsters who's Raindogs 8a dream had been shattered...

[Kingy]

Anytime!