[SA Chris]

[ Since the discovery of the jug it's become a very popular problem for aspiring 7A+ climbers.

I'm not surprised..

[cheque]

That video is fucking great. A two pitch 7A+! 

[mrjonathanr]

I think you are a bit harsh. He and his gf are full of earnest enthusiasm and have just climbed 2 problems graded 7C and 7A+, just probably not at those grades. So what? Not a donkey mark or dab in sight

[jamesturnbull97]

Btw Bradders, someone I know saw your Instagram story of Ben's Sit and said you had shit beta.

Tell me more....

Double knee pads is what I heard Nick....

[jamesturnbull97]

The fucking state of this. "Losing My Edge 7C" 

That's classic. Are we also in a post-truth world with grades? If you just write 7C in the video enough times then it has to be 7C.

EEEEEERRRRRRRRMMAAAAAAAAAAGEEEEEEEEEERRRDDDD! Have you fucking people only just realised this is happening? You're so deeply rammed into Fiend's arse that you believe the whole shtick about "Will Hunt proposes downgrades for everything". Wrong. Will Hunt proposes downgrades where they're needed because the sequence has changed since the FA, or it's patently piss.

Have a look for people still claiming 7C+ for Heaven In Your Hands (probably 7C with the face-crimp and now even easier with the undercut bump beta - it's not harder than Layby Arete).

Have a look at how everyone is doing Whaleback now (another problem ruined, but tbf a hold did break which rendered it very much more difficult).

Plenty of people still putting 7A on videos of Karjala and Longbow. It makes me sick.

The Tripel Effect is the biggest load of shit and should be struck from the record.

Surely it worth mentioning that grades can be equally wrong the other way too which can mess up your grade calibration. There would definitely be a few candidates for upgrades, one off the top of my head would be Gritty Shaker that' now been upped to 7c which certainly felt like the correct grade, if you based everything else around that being 7b plenty of stuff would need changing.
Or Hell's Boss at 7a+, I'm 4 sessions deep on that now....

[Will Hunt]

The problem with Gritty Shaker is that Nez has now found some new beta. I've given it a go but need connies and skin to play ball - maybe next season now. It may yet be 7B! Despite it being a bit too warm and being riddled with tape I managed to progress to touching the left hand guppy hold.

[Coops_13]

I think you are a bit harsh. He and his gf are full of earnest enthusiasm and have just climbed 2 problems graded 7C and 7A+, just probably not at those grades. So what? Not a donkey mark or dab in sight

That's true, there are certain prolific boulderers here in CO that like to tick every single hold, often with those god-awful double ticks 

[andy popp]

Pardon my ignorance, how's Losing my Edge meant to be climbed?

[mrjonathanr]

Massive pedantic grade debate...moral outrage... have I stumbled onto ukc?

[tomtom]

Massive pedantic grade debate...moral outrage... have I stumbled onto ukc?

Quite.

💩

[nai]

Pardon my ignorance, how's Losing my Edge meant to be climbed?

I was wondering this too. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/_hX2KakQSN/?hl=en

[remus]

Pardon my ignorance, how's Losing my Edge meant to be climbed?

I was wondering this too. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/_hX2KakQSN/?hl=en

I assume you're meant to start both hands under the roof and do some hard moves to get to the arete?

[nai]

I assume you're meant to start both hands under the roof and do some hard moves to get to the arete?

Start LH on arete, RH in undercut according to the description.

My guess is it originally slapped up the arete with left then there's probably a hard (er for short) cut loose and match

But I guess Will knows as his rant kicked this off

[Footwork]

I spotted this one yesterday, which is just a font 3 done with one less move.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/caley_crags-540/the_stotty-524871

Unchecked by the UKC crag moderator in the two years since it was done. Whoever this “Footwork” guy is needs to pull his finger out. 

Thank you for your feedback (which is invaluable to us). Please note that during these difficult times we are taking a little longer to get back to everyone. You can expect a reply in the next 2 - 3 years.

We appreciate your understanding and thank you for your patience.

Caley Crag moderating team

[Oldmanmatt]

I spotted this one yesterday, which is just a font 3 done with one less move.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/caley_crags-540/the_stotty-524871

Unchecked by the UKC crag moderator in the two years since it was done. Whoever this “Footwork” guy is needs to pull his finger out. 

Thank you for your feedback (which is invaluable to us). Please note that during these difficult times we are taking a little longer to get back to everyone. You can expect a reply in the next 2 - 3 years.

We appreciate your understanding and thank you for your patience.

Caley Crag moderating team

You forgot to add the “This is an automated reply” tag...

[MischaHY]

Have to say I think you've dropped the ball here Will. I completely agree that it's stupid taking the grade if you climbed a far easier method but have a little whine about it on UKB doesn't serve anyone.

A polite comment on the video explaining how the problems are supposed to be done and a kind pointer about how they might be kidding themselves a little on the grade would be easily done and would also save multiple pages of frothing UKB vitriol.

I know how I'd feel if someone was talking about me like that on an online forum (it's happened) and it's not a nice feeling at all. Some well placed advice will set them up for future success and strengthen confidence in both their sense of grading and their feeling of community within climbing.

[Bradders]

Pardon my ignorance, how's Losing my Edge meant to be climbed?

I was wondering this too. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/_hX2KakQSN/?hl=en

I assume you're meant to start both hands under the roof and do some hard moves to get to the arete?

I think that was the original idea, but hasn't been done yet to my knowledge and tbh might not really be workable.

Forgive banging my own drum but original beta at about 4:27 in this video:



Hard slappy moves up with the left hand and then matching in with the pinch in your left isn't trivial. I thought this was about right for 7C, but then I also took 7C+ for To Me To You so..

[User deactivated.]

I spotted this one yesterday, which is just a font 3 done with one less move.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/caley_crags-540/the_stotty-524871

Unchecked by the UKC crag moderator in the two years since it was done. Whoever this “Footwork” guy is needs to pull his finger out. 

Thank you for your feedback (which is invaluable to us). Please note that during these difficult times we are taking a little longer to get back to everyone. You can expect a reply in the next 2 - 3 years.

We appreciate your understanding and thank you for your patience.

Caley Crag moderating team

Hi Caley Crag Moderating Team, please see my feedback below for your consideration:

Downgrade list
The Groove
New Jerusalem
Hanging Wall
Otzi
Pedestal Arete stand start
Cuddles
Boulder 22 problem 5 (Cruel Arete?)

Upgrade list
Forked Lightning Crack
Mr Smooth
The Drey
dare I say it - Crystal Method?

[36chambers]

I assume you're meant to start both hands under the roof and do some hard moves to get to the arete?

I think that was the original idea, but hasn't been done yet to my knowledge and tbh might not really be workable.

I've done the moves starting matched in the roof and with a double toe hook on the arete lie down start. It's dabby, not very hard, and pretty shit, especially if you do the easy sequence of matching the arete ASAP.

[Will Hunt]

would also save multiple pages of frothing UKB vitriol.

I think you may have completely misunderstood the purpose of this thread, Mischa.


Yes, I know that the proper thing to do would be to write lots of nice polite comments on these videos, or to drop in a little comment about stacking pads/starting wrong/finishing wrong while at the crag. I have done this in the past and do do it still, but there's only so much you can do before you get a reputation for being a dickhead. There's only so big a reputation that I'm prepared to nurture. I once told somebody who'd "finished" Crucifix Low Traverse about two or three moves early (it was laughable) to get back around in quite a nice, jokey, craicful manner. They were pretty pissed off.


Difficult to tell but I don't think Bradders employed the beta that I used on Losing My Edge. I don't recall finding the slaps up the arete being overly difficult, but holding the pinch flake at its bottom and matching over it with the right hand is definitely the crux on the original beta. I was able to bump my left hand again to take the pinch higher which turns it into a bit of a jug, thus getting rid of the crux. I put a comment in my logbook describing this improved beta and that it felt about 7A or 7A+.

[MischaHY]

would also save multiple pages of frothing UKB vitriol.

I think you may have completely misunderstood the purpose of this thread, Mischa.


Yes, I know that the proper thing to do would be to write lots of nice polite comments on these videos, or to drop in a little comment about stacking pads/starting wrong/finishing wrong while at the crag. I have done this in the past and do do it still, but there's only so much you can do before you get a reputation for being a dickhead. There's only so big a reputation that I'm prepared to nurture. I once told somebody who'd "finished" Crucifix Low Traverse about two or three moves early (it was laughable) to get back around in quite a nice, jokey, craicful manner. They were pretty pissed off.


Difficult to tell but I don't think Bradders employed the beta that I used on Losing My Edge. I don't recall finding the slaps up the arete being overly difficult, but holding the pinch flake at its bottom and matching over it with the right hand is definitely the crux on the original beta. I was able to bump my left hand again to take the pinch higher which turns it into a bit of a jug, thus getting rid of the crux. I put a comment in my logbook describing this improved beta and that it felt about 7A or 7A+.

No worries Will, can appreciate people aren't always welcoming of constructive criticism. I'm probably a little oversensitive about these things really.

edit: I know that I when younger wasn't exposed to a lot of banter and the wink/nudge style of letting someone know that they'd got something wrong. I sometimes wonder if it's worth being a little less joking and a little more straight bat in these situations. 'Nice work. The problem doesn't finish there though, it has 3 more moves' is a lot easier to swallow (at least for me) than the 'too early youth, back around now' style of quip.

That's not a criticism but just a thought about how beating around the bush can sometimes be less effective than just being friendly but honest. 

[Bradders]

I assume you're meant to start both hands under the roof and do some hard moves to get to the arete?

I think that was the original idea, but hasn't been done yet to my knowledge and tbh might not really be workable.

I've done the moves starting matched in the roof and with a double toe hook on the arete lie down start. It's dabby, not very hard, and pretty shit, especially if you do the easy sequence of matching the arete ASAP.

Ah okay, good vision hadn't thought of that. Might be a worthwhile eliminate I suppose. Would you claim it as an FA though?! 

[User deactivated.]

We have a discussion forum where like-minded people (in some respects) come together and procrastinate on a daily basis, going into the minutiae of what are very silly and arbitrary rules in an ultimately pointless activity (and it's great!). I don't think anyone here really wants to hurt anyone's feelings, so perhaps we should have a specific downgrade/upgrade/approved sequence thread, where posting in it means you accept all the piss-taking that comes, and then we can straighten things out whilst keep it all in-house?

[spidermonkey09]

Difficult to tell but I don't think Bradders employed the beta that I used on Losing My Edge. I don't recall finding the slaps up the arete being overly difficult, but holding the pinch flake at its bottom and matching over it with the right hand is definitely the crux on the original beta. I was able to bump my left hand again to take the pinch higher which turns it into a bit of a jug, thus getting rid of the crux. I put a comment in my logbook describing this improved beta and that it felt about 7A or 7A+.

A friend who is not shit tried this and thought it required an albatross span and thought 7B+ for the non lanksters using Nick's beta.

No worries Will, can appreciate people aren't always welcoming of constructive criticism. I'm probably a little oversensitive about these things really.

edit: I know that I when younger wasn't exposed to a lot of banter and the wink/nudge style of letting someone know that they'd got something wrong. I sometimes wonder if it's worth being a little less joking and a little more straight bat in these situations. 'Nice work. The problem doesn't finish there though, it has 3 more moves' is a lot easier to swallow (at least for me) than the 'too early youth, back around now' style of quip.

That's not a criticism but just a thought about how beating around the bush can sometimes be less effective than just being friendly but honest. 

I don't think theres anything on here we wouldn't put in the bring our your dabs thread or similar piss taking. I think if you make a big deal of the grade in your video and it turns out its completely wrong its fair game to have a laugh about that. Its an interesting point though, I think a lot of people opt for the jokey quip out of fear of being seen a grumpy sod. People will 'prefer' being called out different ways, so impossible to get it right every time.

He'll have the last laugh anyway when he monetises his youtube channel.

[Will Hunt]

Difficult to tell but I don't think Bradders employed the beta that I used on Losing My Edge. I don't recall finding the slaps up the arete being overly difficult, but holding the pinch flake at its bottom and matching over it with the right hand is definitely the crux on the original beta. I was able to bump my left hand again to take the pinch higher which turns it into a bit of a jug, thus getting rid of the crux. I put a comment in my logbook describing this improved beta and that it felt about 7A or 7A+.

A friend who is not shit tried this and thought it required an albatross span and thought 7B+ for the non lanksters using Nick's beta.

I presume you're talking about Rob (I've seen his logbook comment). I honestly don't understand how anybody can really claim that this alternative beta requires some sort of freakishly unusual body shape. It's merely a case of taking the hold that everybody else (including Dan Turner - who probably self-identifies as being in the "short" category) takes and then readjusting on it to hold it literally a couple of inches higher. The flake that forms the pinch on the arete narrows towards its top so taking it even a little higher than the very bottom dramatically improves it. We're not talking about wrapping your hand around the flake at its top, it's just holding the pinch a little higher. I'm 5 foot and 10 inches, with an unremarkable positive ape index.

Ben will be along in a minute to complain that you need to be a freak (Ben defines a freak as anybody with a slightly different body to him) to do this. He's wrong. Ben gave it one measly attempt, didn't stick the move first time, and then instantly gave up. This is what he does. Any time that somebody improves beta on a problem that he wants to do at a specific grade (see: Pinch 32) he gives it a really half-hearted go, declares it impossible for him, and then gets back to Big Grades For Bad Beta. Ben is taller than me and has a slightly shorter arm span (though he will be along momentarily to declare that the gulf between our arm spans should be measured in football fields or double-decker buses).