[Loos3-tools]

I’d be keen to hear what you thought about Robin Aitken? If there is a topic split maybe under the title - the BBC a factual and impartial news channel or subtle propaganda machine of the ‘arrogant liberal elite’

[mrjonathanr]

If this is a topic you want to discuss, why don’t you start a thread? It will fly or not according to people’s interest, but hectoring simplifications like the above might work less well than simple, open debate.

[Loos3-tools]

It’s paraphrasing what Robin Aitken said in the video, I thought topic splits were the usual way here. Although I understand the special circumstances.

[Ru]

Topic now split. I wrote a long reply, then gave up. My (main) criticism of the video, amongst many others, is that at the start it alleges bias generally, without explaining what the alleged bias is. It then says the proof of this is that an anti-EU organisation commissioned some studies showing that the BBC was biased about one single subject (it was pro-EU and biased against Brexit). It doesn't reference those studies so that the viewer can actually read them and make their own mind up about the conclusions, but lets give him the benefit of the doubt and assume the studies were objective despite who commissioned them. With no further evidence, he then asserts bias in favour of "liberal left progressive" views, which he doesn't explain but gives some curious examples (curious because the essence of most of the topics he references are enshrined in UK law (equality of gender, culture and religion and combatting climate change) making his accusation of bias into an accusation that the BBC reflects established UK culture, but anyway). Evidence of bias against Brexit isn't evidence of bias against anything else. It's basically a bait and switch job.

[Loos3-tools]

Cheers for the split. Original vid and quote posted




"It’s time the scales fell from our eyes. We should see the BBC for what it really is: a subtle propaganda machine for a particular view of the world.  We should demand that the BBC lives up to its promises – and if it can’t then it should lose the license fee privilege. The BBC’s version of impartiality is a con perpetrated by an arrogant intellectual liberal-left elite. It’s time for change."

[Fultonius]

As mentioned, the BBCs top political editor is a through and through Tory, so any arguments of left wing bias seem unfounded. Mostly, the left and right seem to mostly balance out.

My current bugbear with the BBC is their completely uncritical regurgitation of the government's pushed out statements with their "right to reply" or whatever it's called.

E.g. "Evidence has come to light that the government has wasted £bn on dodgy PPE contracts during the pandemic". (paraphrased)
"The government have released a statement saying, get back in your box and stop trying to hold our chumocracy to account".

The BBC need to grow some balls and actually call the government out on shoddy, corrupt behaviour.

Instead they appoint a tory donor (£400k) as Chairman....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Sharp_(BBC_chairman)#:~:text=Richard%20Simon%20Sharp%20(born%208,23%20years%20at%20Goldman%20Sachs.

[Loos3-tools]

I’m not really sure left / right come into it. I understand what Ru meant by the bait and switch and I wasn’t overly comfortable with Brexit being used as an example. It interests me why Robin Aitken is clearly so disturbed by the agenda of the bbc and what he believes is the driving force behind it.

[Rocksteady]

My current bugbear with the BBC is their completely uncritical regurgitation of the government's pushed out statements with their "right to reply" or whatever it's called.

E.g. "Evidence has come to light that the government has wasted £bn on dodgy PPE contracts during the pandemic". (paraphrased)
"The government have released a statement saying, get back in your box and stop trying to hold our chumocracy to account".

The BBC need to grow some balls and actually call the government out on shoddy, corrupt behaviour.

YES!  This winds me up so much. I can't not notice it now and it makes news almost unlistenable/unwatchable.

The trouble is the government know their behavioural science so they know that people will pay twice as much attention to the view/side they already agree with than one that challenges that. So it's in the government's interest to have their reply published every time even when they don't have a leg to stand on.

For me that isn't the BBC presenting a balanced debate, it's presenting tit-for-tat under the guise of 'balance'.

[mrjonathanr]

For me that isn't the BBC presenting a balanced debate, it's presenting tit-for-tat under the guise of 'balance'.

This.

[A Jooser]

I wish all the critics would stop whining about the BBC. What tremendous value it is! Why, as an example of the excellent service the BBC provides, just look at the near-24-hours of rolling news, live coverage, about the chat that adorable couple had with the nice American lady who hosts the talk shows. I am sure everyone cannot fail to agree this was fully justified in leading the homepage of the BBC news website all day. What else could possibly be more important.

Well done the BBC! Another winner!

[Loos3-tools]

Yes well the government and their behavioural science department and its links to BBC reporting (along with the Guardian) is essentially Orwell’s ProleFeed.

Just as the corona narrative is starting to look on shaky ground they ramp up the behavioural nudges or deflect with identity politics. The beeb must have nearly exploded with glee at this one.The shocking revelation that prejudice exists in the royal family, who would have thought it possible a bunch of wooden top scroungers could hold these views. C’mon bbc how about running the headline ‘Boris’s year long campaign of abuse led to increased suicide, thoughts of suicide and self harm in the masses’ stick that on a rolling headline.

[teestub]

All the Fox style partisan news channels are on their way over here, so anyone who has a problem with lockdown, or any other mind control tactics of the intellectual liberal left elite, will be able a find a news channel to tell them what they want to hear.

I’m looking forward to seeing what the UK versions of Pizzagate and Q turn out to be.

[tomtom]

Is this thread a safe space to talk about Meghan Markle and Piers Morgan?

[Loos3-tools]

Absolutely! Wade in, the more nonsense chatted the better I say. My mind is already a bowl of custard.

[Plattsy]

Bits and pieces I've picked up on this subject.
In the 80s the BBC was thought to be more left leaning. In the 2000s Tory MPs have had more air time than MPs from other parties.
So a shift from left to right over that time period.

Seems as though comedy has shifted in the other direction. Think I read the BBC were looking to diversify and use more right leaning comics in the future.

[Oldmanmatt]

I wish all the critics would stop whining about the BBC. What tremendous value it is! Why, as an example of the excellent service the BBC provides, just look at the near-24-hours of rolling news, live coverage, about the chat that adorable couple had with the nice American lady who hosts the talk shows. I am sure everyone cannot fail to agree this was fully justified in leading the homepage of the BBC news website all day. What else could possibly be more important.

Well done the BBC! Another winner!

Ah man! I was 11 when the last episode of NTNN aired, March 1982 and my bed time didn’t alllow me to watch anything that late, until the following Sept, when I started Comp.
Now I get free Flu jabs and letters from Sunlife...

Funny though, when you think about it, it’s almost as if nothing has changed, a sort of weird sense that media bias isn’t even new, or a product of the current crop of “human behaviourist”.

[ali k]

Think I read the BBC were looking to diversify and use more right leaning comics in the future.

They already are on stuff like the R4 news quiz.

[Hydraulic Man]

Yes well the government and their behavioural science department and its links to BBC reporting (along with the Guardian) is essentially Orwell’s ProleFeed.

Guardian was a changed newspaper after the Greenwald stuff. Pretty obvious someone hauled them in for a "chat"

[mrjonathanr]

Just as the corona narrative is starting to look on shaky ground they ramp up the behavioural nudges or deflect with identity politics.

Okay, there are 4 points here:

What is the corona narrative
What is the recent counter evidence
Identify the increased behavioural nudges
How is the BBC increasingly using identity politics to distract viewers

I am not clear what they are. Please can you unpack this for me?

[Oldmanmatt]

Quick straw poll.

How many people reading this thread, actually watch scheduled BBC news broadcasts?

How many use the BBC as their primary news source?

Is it anybody’s sole news source?

How much live tv do people actually watch?

As a percentage, how much of your typical monthly viewing, does the BBC provide?


Personally, I skim 6 or 7 different papers and media outlets, each day and the beeb hasn’t been on that list, except for local news, for many years; though I might check their version for the odd story.

I’ve only watched the odd drama or science/nature doc, on iPlayer, for about 10 years or so now.

I don’t remember the last time I watched a scheduled program on any platform. Even where we’ve followed a series, we’ve waited until the entire series is available to stream.

Stopped listening to R4 years ago and Sunday morning weekly political autopsies no longer appeal.

I just think the beeb has always been under control of politically appointed DG’s and it’s hardly surprising. I also suspect you can find evidence of bias, in both/all directions, at any given moment, now and historically, in the beeb’s political programming; with a possible shift in favour of one or the other over time.

I suspect Tories get more air time, because they represent the current government, in many cases. So, assuming the stats include any appearances by elected officials, then the party currently fielding “government spokesperson” d’jour, is going to outstrip the opposition representation on any channel.

[T_B]

Yeah cos UKB is really diverse.

[TobyD]

I suspect Tories get more air time, because they represent the current government, in many cases. So, assuming the stats include any appearances by elected officials, then the party currently fielding “government spokesperson” d’jour, is going to outstrip the opposition representation on any channel.

Yup. They were always accused of being too close to Tony Blair's government too.

I use the BBC online, podcasts and iPlayer all the time, but I also read several papers, although I don't watch TV news really.

I feel strongly that most people's criticism of the BBC really amounts to 'it doesn't agree with my world view, therefore it must be biased'. It certainly isn't perfect, but it's an awful lot better than what you get in most countries.

[remus]

I feel strongly that most people's criticism of the BBC really amounts to 'it doesn't agree with my world view, therefore it must be biased'. It certainly isn't perfect, but it's an awful lot better than what you get in most countries.

  While there's certainly plenty to criticise about the BBC it seems to be missing the woods for the trees. On the whole it compares very favourably with other media.

[teestub]

I feel strongly that most people's criticism of the BBC really amounts to 'it doesn't agree with my world view, therefore it must be biased'. It certainly isn't perfect, but it's an awful lot better than what you get in most countries.

I agree with this, as Ru mentioned upthread (or on the other one that this split from), the BBC seems to be accused of bias from all sides: investigated by the government for being too left wing, giving too much airtime to Farage and co, being a conservative government propaganda mouthpiece, not giving Corbyn fair coverage, giving Corbyn too much coverage, etc. etc.

Any complaints about it following popular news stories such as the current royal stuff, when it’s what a broad swath of the country will be talking about, should compare it to something properly click driven like the Mail website and see how much worse it could be.

[Oldmanmatt]

Yes well the government and their behavioural science department and its links to BBC reporting (along with the Guardian) is essentially Orwell’s ProleFeed.

Just as the corona narrative is starting to look on shaky ground they ramp up the behavioural nudges or deflect with identity politics. The beeb must have nearly exploded with glee at this one.The shocking revelation that prejudice exists in the royal family, who would have thought it possible a bunch of wooden top scroungers could hold these views. C’mon bbc how about running the headline ‘Boris’s year long campaign of abuse led to increased suicide, thoughts of suicide and self harm in the masses’ stick that on a rolling headline.

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Anyway, I have this amazing product that would really help you!
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Ps.

I’ll do you a real deal.

Stop with the un evidenced rants and start giving us something concrete (not somebody else’s opinion piece. This is like saying “the bible is true, because the bible tells me so”) and I’ll gladly debate your points. Even conceding them if you provide convincing evidence.