[ali k]

Probably me!

Haha well if it was you earlier this year then thanks for correcting me and good to put a face to a name an avatar 
Saying that I seem to be going senile wrt my memory these days so I may well not remember (I wish this was a joke - I'm starting to wonder if I'm suffering from early onset dementia or something similar. Several times already this year I've blanked people I've met before, amongst many other memory fails).

[SA Chris]

That's just aging, not dementia, don't stress.

I had a thought the other day; I can recite word for word the lyrics from a song I've not heard for 30 years, but at the same time can't remember what I went upstairs for.

[Fiend]

Knowing that the route would go last week, I suppose the pressure was then on to perform well and get it done.
...
when it comes to trying things I find hard I am quite tick-orientated.
...
The problem I seem to have had here is that I started caring too much about getting to the top when it became apparent that it would go.

Well...

And well done for the 8a!

I wanted to say well done on the first 8a, one of those milestone grades.

First off, congratulations on the 8a Will..... take pride in.... your achievement

Will- Sorry to hear that ticking your first 8a was a let down.

Nice work on getting the 8a.

...I think I see the problem.

When you're part of a culture that is so soulless and spiritually bereft that it's modus operandi is dishing out superficial ego-massages for attaining such trivial trophies as "first 8a", like giving dog treats to a mutt that's learnt a new trick, it seems likely that, against your better judgement, your perspective of what is valuable and worth focusing on could get skewed and corrupted by such rot - if not as bad as attributing any importance to the grade, then perhaps at least a mis-belief that getting the tick is the most significant.

The platitudes focus on one thing - the end result, the "success". They miss out the vast bulk of the experience from the route choice, the inspiration, the line, the rock quality, the situation, the beauty of the movement, the feel of the holds, the personal challenge, the learning, the refinement, the experience of progressing, how each attempt actually goes. If you start to focus on the end rather than the means, it seems very likely that there will be increased anxiety about whether or not you will get that end, especially with knowledge "the route would go" - you'll be anxious about it not happening. But that end may or may not happen on that particular attempt, it's not fully within your control (assuming that you've chosen a significant enough challenge for doubt to remain on any given attempt). What you can control is most of the other factors, including the quality of the experience (by choosing a route where the climbing is really great) and your performance en-route (rather than the "performance" of attaining success). Focusing on and enjoying the means, something you can control. Can you be anxious about feeling your hands curl over a rat crimp? About rocking over and flying into a sidepull? About a cunning foot placement that allows an optimum shakeout? About knowing a crux is coming, breathing calmly, and trying to execute it perfectly? About a fresh breeze that makes the holds feel crisper? I suspect it's harder.

Furthermore, from what you said, if anxiety is already an issue for you, it is probably a good idea to tackle it outside of the climbing arena too. Some climbers are....somewhat robotic and detached and can climb to escape from their issues. For others, they bring those issues into climbing, especially when it gets emotionally stressful. And it might be harder to tackle that within climbing itself.

[shark]

Good luck with your first 8a

[Coops_13]

M: Intensive wrist session - wrist feeling worked which is good

T: Core. Rotator cuff exercises. Pistol squat progressions

W: Intensive wrist session

F: Intensive wrist session

S: Flatirons solo link-up day. What a sufferfest. Over 30C with wildfire smoke blown over made for tough going. Linked up nine solos with a lot of hiking and bushwhacking in between.
Freeway 5.0 Second Flatiron - really nice and long
West Face 5.2 Second Flatiron - short and steep to the summit
Southeast Ridge 4th-class Third Flatironette - a bit dirty but OK
East Ridge 4th-class Hammerhead - nice and unique climbing over a thin (ready to drop) arch
Yodeling Moves 5.0 Hammerhead - Steep juggy moves to the summit
North Rib 5.0 The Regency - dirty and a big bushwhack to access
East Face 5.0 Royal Arch - nice but expect a crowd
East Face 5.0 Anomaly - dirty and covered in moss - shat myself on this
Buckets 5.0 Amoeboid - good but not as good as talked about
Watch said I burnt 3800 calories and needed 79 hours to recover. Definitely v dehydrated by the end (headache and some shivering/goosbumps!)

[Fiend]

Good luck with your first 8a

Piss off     

P.S. Forgot to say Will well done on climbing nicely on the day and doing a smooth ascent of whatever it was. Sometimes smooth is great, sometimes a skin of your baws battle is great.

[nai]

Didn't you do Sufferance at Dumby about 10 years ago?

[Fiend]

F7c+/d tops and the main thing that stuck with me was the feel of the clean slanting edges on the early section of the climb that I had so refined that it was a pleasure to climb it even when the overall experience was very daunting.

To keep this relevant, as Will's post / explanation / question is pretty interesting: I did have some anxiety trying to redpoint it but that was mostly due to the run-out redpoint crux (bolt in the middle of the 6b jug-pull middle section, which is soon below your feet on a committing rock-over where it should have been placed) and just being plain scared of that - something that I should have alleviated by falling practise! Maybe not the same as anxiety about getting the tick (although I did have the slightly stupid self-imposed pressure of trying to get it done within a year of being discharged from hospital), but my way of coping with it was what I've suggested - focusing on the great aspects of the process, especially the feel of the early moves and the general technical quality of the route (very high, that run-out bit is actually arguably the best move at Dumby).

[tomtom]

Week 21
Welcome back Dolly.

Mon: rest

Tues: 30 plus degrees in the attic room, Board session. Did 'alright' but faded after 30 min or so. Did some -10kg assisted one armers afterwards.

Weds: 1 arm day. 30 degrees again. Stinking hot. Modified my set up so there are two pulleys - as I was getting friction burns from the rope going in the opposite direction. -18, -16, -14, -12 and three sets at 10kg assist. Really hard at the end - left shoulder a tad niggly.

Thurs: Went to Rubicon for a potter with the boy - partly to meet Plattsy to drop off a boulder mat he was buying. Did some traverses and a few of the straight ups on the right that I'd not done for a couple of years. Felt quite good. Haydn was there doing routes - had a good chat. He kindly leant me his spare pad (after plattsy picked up mine) and I had a play on Kudos and Press. Could barely get off the deck on Kudos - dire. But some decent pulls on the press. Left after the boy started getting bored. Nice to get out.

As we were leaving we saw the Bailiff/warden smartly escort a couple of 'lads' (30 somethings) in an inflatable kyak from the water...

Friday. Board day. Great session - did pretty much everything I'd done before and made up a couple of new things. Ace.

Sat: Terrible headache all day. Family day too - wobbled my way through a day out...

Sun: Crappy conditions - looked like clag in the peak (easterly wind) so headed up to the Lancs Quarries. Went to W1 - still can't do "the Move" after an hour of trying (one move 7A) got pissed off and went to have a play on Fingertoe again. Some good progress here. Did the first move (once) and the move rocking over onto the toe. Then gassed out on it (thats two moves right at my limit - and I was empty!). Was going to go home - then had a play around the corner on Shieldbug (a crimpy 7A wall climb) and got it after about 30 min - a real wobble wobble slap and hold type ascent. A good session after all.

Ticking over- and ticking upwards slowly...

[Bradders]

As much as I'd rather not discuss this, I feel like it's important because it's clearly quite limiting in terms of my climbing. I have occasionally had periods of suffering with anxiety over the years. At it's worst (working on my final year dissertation) I'd struggle to get up in the morning, shower, eat some breakfast, throw it up, and then start work. It feels like you're in fight or flight mode constantly which plays havoc with your appetite and your ability to eat normally, and makes it difficult to sleep well. Any work related episodes I've learned to deal with by doing CBT and doing it as soon as I start seeing the early signs.
Anxiety is rarely (for me at least) brought on by anything that's really worth being anxious about.
Knowing that the route would go last week, I suppose the pressure was then on to perform well and get it done. Thursday morning wasn't too good and Saturday morning was dreadful. Fortunately when I got to the crag each time I got into the groove and the craic and things settled down, but I'd already told myself that if it didn't go on Saturday then I was sacking it off and moving on – the mental health problems weren't worth it. Given that 4/5 sessions is quick work in the grand scheme of sport climbing, I could really do with dealing with this better if I'm going to carry on projecting stuff.

Has anybody had similar? What did you do?

Yes I've had similar, for me it manifests in occasional absolutely crippling decision anxiety. Makes leaving the house a bit of a battle when it happens, as I second guess and question every little factor which might influence the day. And sometimes means I end up not going out at all.

Can't say I've any particular strategies for solving it though. It always settles down once I actually get in the car and set off somewhere. Occasionally talking through the options with my partner is really helpful, or asking friends for ideas. Just vocalising my thoughts seems to be very cathartic.

Also, it absolutely never happens when I've pre-arranged to meet someone. Guess being accountable to the other person / people means the decision making process is taken out of my hands.

Once at the crag, having a routine as Dunny suggests is the most helpful strategy, working through the sequence and refining moves works well, and for actual redpoints 36C gave some good advice on here a while ago; just think of each go as "just another burn", never "it could be this go". Might be a little different for routes but works well for boulders.

[joeisidle]

As much as I'd rather not discuss this, I feel like it's important because it's clearly quite limiting in terms of my climbing. I have occasionally had periods of suffering with anxiety over the years. At it's worst (working on my final year dissertation) I'd struggle to get up in the morning, shower, eat some breakfast, throw it up, and then start work. It feels like you're in fight or flight mode constantly which plays havoc with your appetite and your ability to eat normally, and makes it difficult to sleep well. Any work related episodes I've learned to deal with by doing CBT and doing it as soon as I start seeing the early signs.
Anxiety is rarely (for me at least) brought on by anything that's really worth being anxious about.
Knowing that the route would go last week, I suppose the pressure was then on to perform well and get it done. Thursday morning wasn't too good and Saturday morning was dreadful. Fortunately when I got to the crag each time I got into the groove and the craic and things settled down, but I'd already told myself that if it didn't go on Saturday then I was sacking it off and moving on – the mental health problems weren't worth it. Given that 4/5 sessions is quick work in the grand scheme of sport climbing, I could really do with dealing with this better if I'm going to carry on projecting stuff.

Has anybody had similar? What did you do?

Yes I've had similar, for me it manifests in occasional absolutely crippling decision anxiety. Makes leaving the house a bit of a battle when it happens, as I second guess and question every little factor which might influence the day. And sometimes means I end up not going out at all.

Can't say I've any particular strategies for solving it though. It always settles down once I actually get in the car and set off somewhere. Occasionally talking through the options with my partner is really helpful, or asking friends for ideas. Just vocalising my thoughts seems to be very cathartic.

Also, it absolutely never happens when I've pre-arranged to meet someone. Guess being accountable to the other person / people means the decision making process is taken out of my hands.

Once at the crag, having a routine as Dunny suggests is the most helpful strategy, working through the sequence and refining moves works well, and for actual redpoints 36C gave some good advice on here a while ago; just think of each go as "just another burn", never "it could be this go". Might be a little different for routes but works well for boulders.

I'm glad this isn't just me. My best days out are always when I meet someone else and share an experience, rather than being stuck inside my own internal dialogue, precisely because of this.

Also what fiend says 're the 8a thing

[NaoB]

Will, know that you are not alone. Even those who have been in 'the performance tunnel' of pushing their redpoint limits for many years mostly still experience varying degrees of stress / anxiety. I know a few who have sleepless nights, stomach cramps and bouts of nervous shaking when they feel close to a route. I'm fortunate enough to not suffer from anxiety as such, but I do have to combat negativity, especially when I feel time pressure (like when you can see a bad forecast that will result in seepage, or at a venue I can't necessarily have unlimited visits to).

I agree with fiend that the way forward is to enjoy the process, rather than focusing on the 'send'. All terrible clichés.... But it's true! So if you are prospecting for a project and you don't actually like your chosen route, leave it and pick something else that you can enjoy even when you are falling off.

Also, I got into a funk about dropping last moves of things. It became a bit of self-fulfilling prophecy. Recognising that I had an issue with this, listening to wise words from those who had successfully overcome similar obstacles, and consciously applying techniques to breathe, try hard and be positive made a big difference.

To summarise - pick your battles, choose to be positive and relaxed, and just enjoy yourself. Experience will be your friend too. Hope you have many more satisfying but challenging routes ahead of you!

[Will Hunt]

Thank Naomi, that post helps a lot. And thanks to others too.

But fucking hell, no thanks to Fiend. I don't need a lecture on the pointless arbitrariness of chasing the number 8.   
Although I hate to admit it, I probably did let it get to me a bit.

One of the starkest things is the attraction of 8A, which is something I've always seen as being completely arbitrary. In the data so far there is a complete spurning of the 7C+ grade, and once people have basked in the glow of the magical 8A grade they presumably jack it in and start eating crisps again and never bother going harder.

Consider that the perceived milestone grade in Bishop (V10 - getting into double figures) will be what we call 7C+...
In the YDS, the big perceived milestone is 5.15a - what we call 9a+. The previous one before that is 5.14a - or boring old 8b+ (who would ever put effort into 8b+ other than as a stepping stone to 9a for God's sake?).

Nobody ever sat down and said "How hard should you have to boulder in order to be considered decent? Let's call that difficulty '8A'" and then worked out the rest of the grades from there. Somebody climbed something a bit harder than the 7C+ and they were already saddled with the A-C+ format. 8A is really just 7C in a system that goes up to D+ before rolling back through the alphabet. In fact I quite like that alternate universe. You'd be considered a massive punter until you'd done a 7B (i.e. 7A in their world), and you'd only be allowed an entourage and sponsored instagram account when you'd done an 8C (their 8A).

[spidermonkey09]

Also, I got into a funk about dropping last moves of things. It became a bit of self-fulfilling prophecy. Recognising that I had an issue with this, listening to wise words from those who had successfully overcome similar obstacles, and consciously applying techniques to breathe, try hard and be positive made a big difference.

This is an interesting although doubtless very frustrating problem to have had. The phrase 'be positive' is an interesting one as it obviously has a meaning beyond 'thinking happy thoughts' in a climbing context. I have sometimes been consumed with fear/nerves on the final sections of routes, terrified that I'm going to drop it, but have consciously tried to apply that thought process of climbing positively; not fiddling around with footholds, moving with commitment to the next hold, basically trying not to dawdle once I decide to go. I've found it very useful, but doubtless it would be a much bigger hurdle to overcome had I historically had an issue with dropping the last move.

[duncan]

F7c+/d tops

So you’re a 5.13 climber then!

M - Shoulders: handstands, side planks, 160-120 degree lock-offs. Scorchio!
T - ~30 mins. run. Felt like I was training for the Marathon des Sables. Fingerboard: max. hangs (15 x 7 seconds at ~90% on 20mm edges). France quarantine announcement, in combination with other factors, makes Font. trip unrealistic. 
W - Not pre-Font training on the  Fairlop Waters concrete boulders with the lad. Easy stuff to ft5+ as it was baking hot.
T - Cycled to Piccadilly and didn’t buy an expensive harness. Body-weight shoulder exercises in the park with the lad. Another 34C day.
F - Fingerboard: max. hangs (15 x 7 seconds at ~90% on 20mm and 15mm edges). Car windscreen fixed.
S - 30 mins. run. More shoulder fun in the park.
S - Drove to Somerset, mostly to see Mum. Dodged the showers to have a pleasant afternoon in Uphill Quarry with Purple Sue and the lad. Lead the latter up a V Diff which I last did in 1978. Shockingly, my first trad. route of the year. More importantly, the lad still seems to enjoy climbing, and prefers routes outside to indoor bouldering even when they are in scruffy quarries.

Worrying temperatures for much of the week: I guess sustained spells in mid-30s are the ‘new normal’. A couple of decent fingerboard sessions, the elbow is 95% better on a strict diet of No Badminton. The car is operational again so of course the weather has crapped out.

Plan: get back on Road Rage or Empire to see how far off I am on these are before the autumn campaign.

[NaoB]

Also, I got into a funk about dropping last moves of things. It became a bit of self-fulfilling prophecy. Recognising that I had an issue with this, listening to wise words from those who had successfully overcome similar obstacles, and consciously applying techniques to breathe, try hard and be positive made a big difference.

This is an interesting although doubtless very frustrating problem to have had. The phrase 'be positive' is an interesting one as it obviously has a meaning beyond 'thinking happy thoughts' in a climbing context. I have sometimes been consumed with fear/nerves on the final sections of routes, terrified that I'm going to drop it, but have consciously tried to apply that thought process of climbing positively; not fiddling around with footholds, moving with commitment to the next hold, basically trying not to dawdle once I decide to go. I've found it very useful, but doubtless it would be a much bigger hurdle to overcome had I historically had an issue with dropping the last move.

You are not wrong - 'be positive' encompasses a massive range of factors, could probably write an essay on it.... I reckon the main points include visualisation (running through every hand/foot sequence, body positions, imagining how hard it will feel, but focusing on the successful outcome rather than the probability of falling), consciously relaxing out of the panicked state you described above (slow it down, breathe) and, most importantly, give it 100% effort. And never, never celebrate too early - concentrate right to the end!

If I forget to do this stuff, it comes back to bite me on the bum.

[moose]

You are not wrong - 'be positive' encompasses a massive range of factors, could probably write an essay on it.... I reckon the main points include visualisation (running through every hand/foot sequence, body positions, imagining how hard it will feel, but focusing on the successful outcome rather than the probability of falling), consciously relaxing out of the panicked state you described above (slow it down, breathe) and, most importantly, give it 100% effort. And never, never celebrate too early - concentrate right to the end!

If I forget to do this stuff, it comes back to bite me on the bum.

Whilst I don't get too anxious before RPs (more just a vague feeling of pessimism), I can get anxious / near panicked whilst climbing - particularly at rests before a crux that give me time to ponder my situation.  As above, I've also found it helps to visualise the moves ahead and do breathing exercises - slow, timed inhalations and exhalations (usually increasing then decreasing in length i.e. 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3 seconds... I do like a long shake out!). 

Also, just as I'm ready to start, I force myself to grin like a maniac for a few seconds, and then abruptly relax my face muscles.  I vaguely recall reading about the technique in some old climbing training guide - for me, it can act like a bit of a reset switch.... like pressing the mental equivalent of the "degaus" button on an old CRT monitor...  TWAAAAAANG!!!!!  I wouldn't say I emerge from all this utterly calm, but at least the negativity tends to be replaced with grim determination to finish the matter.

[spidermonkey09]

Also, I got into a funk about dropping last moves of things. It became a bit of self-fulfilling prophecy. Recognising that I had an issue with this, listening to wise words from those who had successfully overcome similar obstacles, and consciously applying techniques to breathe, try hard and be positive made a big difference.

This is an interesting although doubtless very frustrating problem to have had. The phrase 'be positive' is an interesting one as it obviously has a meaning beyond 'thinking happy thoughts' in a climbing context. I have sometimes been consumed with fear/nerves on the final sections of routes, terrified that I'm going to drop it, but have consciously tried to apply that thought process of climbing positively; not fiddling around with footholds, moving with commitment to the next hold, basically trying not to dawdle once I decide to go. I've found it very useful, but doubtless it would be a much bigger hurdle to overcome had I historically had an issue with dropping the last move.

You are not wrong - 'be positive' encompasses a massive range of factors, could probably write an essay on it.... I reckon the main points include visualisation (running through every hand/foot sequence, body positions, imagining how hard it will feel, but focusing on the successful outcome rather than the probability of falling), consciously relaxing out of the panicked state you described above (slow it down, breathe) and, most importantly, give it 100% effort. And never, never celebrate too early - concentrate right to the end!

If I forget to do this stuff, it comes back to bite me on the bum.

Never celebrate until the chain is clipped is one of my rules as well! I think the feeling of leaving a good rest on redpoint into a final section that logically should be well within you is comparable to the fear of jumping off something high(ish) into water. Just as the section will have felt fine on the rope, the jump always looks pretty easy from side on. Only when you're on the top and looking down does the reality hit, and the reality of being a bit more pumped than would be ideal only hits on the RP go! Once I've made the decision to leave the rest/commit to the jump and I'm mid sequence/ mid air, I dont feel scared or nervous anymore. Rapid adjustment to the new reality perhaps.