[tomtom]

As per the title - its rather obviously because the indoor walls are closed but...

Just from my observations - from my little corner of the world - but from my trips out to the Lancs quarries and other esoterica in the region, there seem to be a lot more people out and about on the rock. Looking at my social media feeds it is also clear that many people - including strong mainly indoor climbers are getting out onto rock and getting up lots of hard and often very off the beaten track problems.

I think its really cool - 7C's and above that have only had a handful of ascents by the regular Lancs protagonists have been getting ticks from a whole load of folk who normally don't seem to venture out much, leading to new beta - new tricks and even subsequent downgrades!

I expect there may be some grumbles of "the rock getting worn out" etc.. but for many of the places I go to - its good to see them getting some action and being kept clean...

Is this something being repeated elsewhere in the country?

[jwi]

On the other hand, there are like five people climbing in the Verdon. In middle of June.

[T_B]

Not in the Peak from what I’ve seen. Apart from Lees Bottom and Harborough Rocks I’ve seen 2 other climbers at 11 different venues I’ve climbed at since Lockdown ended. The weirdest thing is hardly anyone is doing trad. Maybe Horseshoe and the Cornice are busy but they would be anyway.

[cheque]

When I was at Stanage a few weekends ago it was as busy as any sunny bank holiday Monday but no busier. I did, however, see a bunch of lads who were obviously strong indoor climbers wandering around, no pads, no guide, clearly not sure when you take your shoes on and off etc. looking for things to climb (on the dirty little rocks down and right of the Unconquerables weirdly enough )while their girlfriends hid in the shade of the glass hour block. I thought it was quite funny at first but as I progressed down the edge I thought about how it could well be a day they look back on fondly as the first of their new lives. They’ll probably have all done The Joker by Christmas.

Unlike T_B I have seen plenty of people out on trad in the Peak (as above, Stanage is as busy as normal, there were a few teams at Rivelin the other week even with the car park shut, moorland venues have been busier than most years, partly from the weather, partly from wanting to go to more obscure venues, partly from not being able to go further afield) I very much doubt any of them are new recruits though!

It must be weird currently to be one of those people who go to the wall three times a week but see “outdoor climbing” as a niche that’s not for them- how many do you think are buying pads and giving it a go compared to those who’ve already forgotten about climbing completely? 

[Offwidth]

I'm still avoiding the Peak park for now. Wharncliffe has seen several people outside for the first time setting up some pretty responsible top rope systems (good research). First time I've ever met such people up there. On the negative side the littering chavs have never been worse.

[Will Hunt]

It seems like almost every time I've been out I've seen new faces.

I've also seen a young comp climber brought to tears because they couldn't climb something quite easy on rock. Through the tears they said, "I just want to go indoors. I just want to climb indoors again". So we may yet see that everybody heads back to plastic when it all blows over.

[Andy F]

I've seen people at Pex who never climbed outside before COVID. Lots of puzzled looks on their faces when they hear the thing they've just fallen off is V1 and they cruise V5/6/7 on the plastic.

It's like learning how to drive after you've been playing Forza for years.

[mrjonathanr]

Not just by the poster above, but I have seen the word 'chav' used a few times on this forum. That's a shame.

It doesn't, as some people assume, mean: ' an oik, my social inferior'
but rather: 'I am a snob who has no insight into how ignorant I look'

Sort it out please.

[abarro81]

On the other hand, writing self-righteous sounding posts with no attempt to back your point up or argue people around to it does of course make you look clever, charming, witty and handsome. 

[tomtom]

Can I call Barrows a scrote then? Or just a malevolent youth?

(please note the smiley all concerned!)

[mrjonathanr]

On the other hand, writing self-righteous sounding posts with no attempt to back your point up or argue people around to it does of course make you look clever, charming, witty and handsome. 

How very dare you. I have NEVER been accused of being clever, charming, witty or handsome and do not intend to start now.

[Offwidth]

Not just by the poster above, but I have seen the word 'chav' used a few times on this forum. That's a shame.

It doesn't, as some people assume, mean: ' an oik, my social inferior'
but rather: 'I am a snob who has no insight into how ignorant I look'

Sort it out please.

I've argued about this before...  in my view pejorative labels need to be fairly deserved... by definition litter louts deserve this even be they from the well educated middle classes. As a counter example those using a phone for their news are not fairly all called idiots in my view (even though some will be).

I think I deserve a bit of anger having cleared several used disposable nappies at Wharncliffe shoved into places that that were a real bastard to access but still visible and smellable.

[mrjonathanr]

I get why you're livid Offwidth, I was fairly enraged by a smattering of sweet wrappers at Burbage and you have clearly cleared up far worse. And I know it's a sanctimonious point from me, but chav just sends out a social message I think is best avoided.

[Offwidth]

Happy to apologise... It was meant as a label for the guilty not a specific estate locatable sector of society.

There seems to be a reduction at Wharncliffe of the special people who put their dog's shit in a plastic bag and then use it to decorate a bush, tree or cracks in a wall. Just a bit more shit on the path. Pendle Hill used to be the favourite haunt of such folk.... never seen it worse than there.... even the sign next to the dog shit bin had its own special black plastic humoured decoration.

[Will Hunt]

What is the correct pejorative term for somebody who sits drinking Strongbow (it's always Strongbow) at the top of the Cow and Calf/Almscliff/any other elevated position in the countryside and leaves their litter behind or throws it over the edge?
"Litter lout" is not nearly strong enough to convey my contempt for them.

[tomtom]

What is the correct pejorative term for somebody who sits drinking Strongbow (it's always Strongbow) at the top of the Cow and Calf/Almscliff/any other elevated position in the countryside and leaves their litter behind or throws it over the edge?
"Litter lout" is not nearly strong enough to convey my contempt for them.

I would have thought its perfectly acceptable to use any of the following.

Johnsons?
Hancocks?
Cummings?

[dunnyg]

I'm not throwing my tinnies over the edge, I am aiming at those nobheads who carry their own mattresses to the rocks and then shout "CUNT" as they fall about a meter, whats that even about? 

[Bradders]

What is the correct pejorative term for somebody who sits drinking Strongbow (it's always Strongbow) at the top of the Cow and Calf/Almscliff/any other elevated position in the countryside and leaves their litter behind or throws it over the edge?
"Litter lout" is not nearly strong enough to convey my contempt for them.

CUNT

YW 

[tomtom]

I'm not throwing my tinnies over the edge, I am aiming at those nobheads who carry their own mattresses to the rocks and then shout "CUNT" as they fall about a meter, whats that even about? 

LOLZ. All about perspective :D

[gme]

Can I call Barrows a scrote then? Or just a malevolent youth?

(please note the smiley all concerned!)

Never been a fan of chav but i love the use of scrote. Feel free to call me it any time.

[gme]

I would suggest that numbers at the honey pots up here , that are still generally quiet, are down but lots of less frequent places being visited going off instagram and looking at UKC logbooks. Everywhere i have been had signs of people being there recently.

This is a good thing but its noticeably the usual suspects out and about not newbies.

[steveri]

I've had an ace chat with a bunch of rough looking rapscallions [cough] new to outdoors. Strong as you like but a bit clueless, hungry as anything to learn and absolutely full of enthusiasm. They'll be converts I'm sure. Redirected another couple stumbling around under shiny new pads nearly but not quite at the crag.

Browsing latest photos on ukc has given a little insight into people casting around for daft little challenges (guilty). Squiggly mobile topos of new or previously ignored rock. Liking it.

[Ged]

I get why you're livid Offwidth, I was fairly enraged by a smattering of sweet wrappers at Burbage and you have clearly cleared up far worse. And I know it's a sanctimonious point from me, but chav just sends out a social message I think is best avoided.

Absolutely agree.  My wife always gets enraged whenever someone makes a derogatory comment about people who live in council houses (just in case you're unaware, Council House Associated Vermin).  It happens alarmingly frequently, and from people who would probably consider themselves to be empathetic liberal types.  It's really not an ok term to use IMO.

It smacks of the other common thing that seemed to be happening post lockdown, which reeked of self important middle class snobbery; referring to a bunch of people using the outdoors as "they aren't real walkers/climbers/bikers/daisy pickers".  Just because they aren't wearing a £500 Arcteryx jacket doesn't mean someone appreciates the outdoors any less than you (unless they leave a mess. In which case lock em up).

[Oldmanmatt]

I get why you're livid Offwidth, I was fairly enraged by a smattering of sweet wrappers at Burbage and you have clearly cleared up far worse. And I know it's a sanctimonious point from me, but chav just sends out a social message I think is best avoided.

Absolutely agree.  My wife always gets enraged whenever someone makes a derogatory comment about people who live in council houses (just in case you're unaware, Council House Associated Vermin).  It happens alarmingly frequently, and from people who would probably consider themselves to be empathetic liberal types.  It's really not an ok term to use IMO.

It smacks of the other common thing that seemed to be happening post lockdown, which reeked of self important middle class snobbery; referring to a bunch of people using the outdoors as "they aren't real walkers/climbers/bikers/daisy pickers".  Just because they aren't wearing a £500 Arcteryx jacket doesn't mean someone appreciates the outdoors any less than you (unless they leave a mess. In which case lock em up).

I thought it was “Council Housed And Violent”?

And misapplied? As in it was originally supposed to refer to specific, gang related, looks and behaviour, then somehow entered the lexicon as a pejorative for “badly behaved” or even “dressed like/look like, they might be badly behaved” (what ever that might mean)?

I don’t object to not using the word, however, does using another pejorative really “mean” something else, or does it just become a euphemism for the term you would have used but chose not to?

Ultimately, the word represents a lifestyle of choice, not an innate or involuntary state of being. My father grew up on council estates. It was a “normal” thing. His parents stayed in a council flat until death and care homes claimed them. They and their neighbours were not Chavs, they would be now (and were then) utterly disgusted by that type of behaviour. They were poor, at least until my Grandfather became foreman at the Foundry, when they almost scraped the lower edges of middle class.
Chav wasn’t a word, then, as far as I know, but the people who would later have that moniker hung in them, certainly existed.
It’s a pejorative for a type of behaviour, rather than strata of society.

Of course, using scrote instead, does have the advantage of covering all people regardless of social standing or wealth, that display undesirable behaviours in the outdoors. 😜

[Ged]

I get why you're livid Offwidth, I was fairly enraged by a smattering of sweet wrappers at Burbage and you have clearly cleared up far worse. And I know it's a sanctimonious point from me, but chav just sends out a social message I think is best avoided.

Absolutely agree.  My wife always gets enraged whenever someone makes a derogatory comment about people who live in council houses (just in case you're unaware, Council House Associated Vermin).  It happens alarmingly frequently, and from people who would probably consider themselves to be empathetic liberal types.  It's really not an ok term to use IMO.

It smacks of the other common thing that seemed to be happening post lockdown, which reeked of self important middle class snobbery; referring to a bunch of people using the outdoors as "they aren't real walkers/climbers/bikers/daisy pickers".  Just because they aren't wearing a £500 Arcteryx jacket doesn't mean someone appreciates the outdoors any less than you (unless they leave a mess. In which case lock em up).

I thought it was “Council Housed And Violent”?

I'm sure it's lots of things.  But they're all going to be pretty insulting to the many, many people who have or do live in council houses.

[webbo]

I thought it was a shortened abbreviation of someone from Chatham in Kent.

[r-man]

My wife always gets enraged whenever someone makes a derogatory comment about people who live in council houses (just in case you're unaware, Council House Associated Vermin).

This sounds like a naughty backronym!

Google reveals it is indeed a false etymology. This is quite interesting - https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/accessibility/transcripts/dr-joe-bennett-chav.aspx

[tomtom]

My friends in Newcastle say it comes from a local word for a "Chavda"
N=1 etc... who knows etc...

[SA Chris]

My father grew up on council estates. It was a “normal” thing. His parents stayed in a council flat until death and care homes claimed them. They and their neighbours were not Chavs, they would be now (and were then) utterly disgusted by that type of behaviour. They were poor, at least until my Grandfather became foreman at the Foundry, when they almost scraped the lower edges of middle class.

Foundry, luxury, at least it wer' warm. My Grandfather worked down t' pit and had to pay the foreman to let him work.
Aye, we wer' poor, but wer' 'appy.

PS Chav is discriminating, as it excludes Scottish types. They're Neds up here.

Anyway, back OT, noted an increase in people climbing at the local bouldering honeypots, notably Dyke's Cliff and Boltsheugh, but I never really use them anyway.

Walked past the other day to see a local mate walking home with a face like thunder, said "There were about a dozen folk bouldering shoulder to shoulder down there, dunno who they are but they aren't fucking local, never seen them in my life, I didn't even put my fucking boots on".  I've since pointed him at some quieter spots.

[Ged]

My wife always gets enraged whenever someone makes a derogatory comment about people who live in council houses (just in case you're unaware, Council House Associated Vermin).

This sounds like a naughty backronym!

Google reveals it is indeed a false etymology. This is quite interesting - https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/accessibility/transcripts/dr-joe-bennett-chav.aspx

"As Owen Jones’ book points out it’s used in the demonization of the working class, especially young working class people as if they constitute some sort of underclass distinct from the rest of us non-chavs. "

So still pretty insulting

[cheque]

brought to tears because they couldn't climb something quite easy on rock. Through the tears they said, "I just want to go indoors. I just want to climb indoors again".

If you replace the word rock with “a hastily manufactured board” and indoors with  “outdoors” that’s exactly how many of us were just a few weeks ago. 

[Bradders]

On topic, no I don't think there's been much of an increase, and if there has I suspect it won't be all that sustained. It's easy to forget that climbing (or at least bouldering) in the UK is just a bit hard! As in, you often have to drive a long way, it rains a lot, conditions are often terrible, you'll get mud all over your pads or the landings will be bad/slippery/covered in sheep poo, the rock is often rough/sharp/painful, the walk ins can be long/arduous and the grades are sometimes a bit whack (I love it though).

It's not like Font where you can go do a nice painted circuit on blubbery soft slopers and land in the sand when you fall off. You've got to be psyched!! There'll be some who make the transition of course and love it, but overall I actually think that the longer the gyms are shut the more there'll be a net reduction in people participating in the sport outdoors, rather than an increase.

[mrjonathanr]

I thought it was Romany for 'child'. Possible link to Spanish 'chaval' which means lad too.

I think NED is quite an insulting acronym?

[moose]

I half remember charver being used as slang for bad lads when I was a kid.  I recall hearing that it possibly entered common slang from Polari - the slang language that's mainly associated with gay culture.  Doesn't seem entirely daft - lots of old / foreign / corrupted words have entered common parlance from Polari (naff, ogle, zhoosh, scarper etc.); although, charver was apparently slang for sex in Polari, rather than anything to do with louts.

[SA Chris]

Never heard of it, interesting. Though googling it from work computer may not have been wise.

[dunnyg]

Charva is still commonly used in the newcastle and surrounds.

[tomtom]

On Thirs there were at least 5 teams climbing trad in Wilton 1 some in 2, 3 and apparently 4 too. Normally I’d be surprised to see anyone. And I go quite a bit.

All climbing trad.

[T_B]

That’s interesting. I was at Curbar last week on a beautiful breezy evening around Peapod/L’Horla etc. No one. Maybe just unlucky. No one at Ramshaw yesterday neither (apart from Mark who came to say hello) but then it was blowing a gale (then raining)!

[petejh]

Perhaps the UKB pixies can auto-replace the word chav to 'pasty-faced ne'er-do-well'.
As in: 'look at those pasty-faced ne'er-do-wells, sitting on top of the Calf drinking cans of over-caffeinated sugary drink company and throwing their litter'.

[SA Chris]

whole watching pr0n. Just checking that auto replace still works

yep, still does.

[Oldmanmatt]

Perhaps the UKB pixies can auto-replace the word chav to 'pasty-faced ne'er-do-well'.
As in: 'look at those pasty-faced ne'er-do-wells, sitting on top of the Calf drinking cans of over-caffeinated sugary drink company and throwing their litter'.

Yes.

Foul mouthed, malnourished, pale from lack of sunlight, abusive and unwelcoming to strangers, constantly fiddling with small packets of white powder and popping pills.
Scum of the earth, for sure.
The cans, though, are because of their sponsors; so blame should be shared there.

Bastards shouldn’t be allowed out of their cellars really.

[AJM]

I thought it was Romany for 'child'. Possible link to Spanish 'chaval' which means lad too.

I think NED is quite an insulting acronym?

The occupants of Cheltenham ladies college apparently claim it as a compaction of "Cheltenham average", to throw another potential derivation into the mix 

[Offwidth]

I'm happier when the young men and ladies from wherever throw cans rather than bottles from their crag top parties.... easier to clear up. Somehow given we have got trapped in stereotypes I can't see the pasty faced council estate youth  putting dog shit in plastic bags or having used disposable nappies to shove into the most hard to remove yet still visible places.

[Fiend]

On Thirs there were at least 5 teams climbing trad in Wilton 1 some in 2, 3 and apparently 4 too. Normally I’d be surprised to see anyone. And I go quite a bit.

All climbing trad.

TBF some of the teams in Wilton 3 were aid climbing......

[JamieG]

I think NED is quite an insulting acronym?

Pretty sure this a backronym as well. Supposedly stands for non-educated delinquent, but I think the term is much older than that definition.

In Edinburgh some people say Nids which comes from Niddrie, which is a pretty poor part of the city.

[webbo]

I always thought that Ned was a New Zealand white wine. The missus likes the Sauvignon Blanc.