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COVID-19 and the state of politics (Read 183585 times)

Sasquatch

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As an American reading and sifting through all of this, it's somewhat refreshing to know that we are not alone in our ability to show mass incompetence at the national level.  That said, I think it's a toss-up as to whether the UK or the US comes out of 2020 looking like the more inept.  :'(  :popcorn:   :'(

Your covid results are currently worse than ours(per capita), but that could change.  We have the advantage of way more space, so it could be awhile before we really see the full results. 

Basically we have Trump, the GOP, and too many undereducated macho police. 

I think ATM what we have going for us is the potential for some significant political change.  When Covid waves 2 and 3 strike, the boomers are either gonna die or be too afraid to leave the house, leaving the politically charged youngsters to vote. 

On the other hand, those results could legitimately lead to civil war...   :devangel:

TobyD

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As an American reading and sifting through all of this, it's somewhat refreshing to know that we are not alone in our ability to show mass incompetence at the national level.  That said, I think it's a toss-up as to whether the UK or the US comes out of 2020 looking like the more inept.  :'(  :popcorn:   :'(
Your covid results are currently worse than ours(per capita), but that could change.  We have the advantage of way more space, so it could be awhile before we really see the full results. 

I wonder if that's affected by population density though, vast areas of the USA are very  sparsely populated, the more densely populated coastal cities seem to have been hit very hard.  It's hard to compare really.  I think you're right about the incompetence race. BJ and Trump are both doing pretty badly. 

Nigel

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I don't think that the current government is malevolent in that I don't think they're actively willing the deaths of thousands of people, but I think that they're virtually inarguably incompetent.

Unfortunately the end result is the same.

Focussing just on the example I gave, if requiring MPs to attend parliament in person causes transmission of the virus and an MP falls seriously ill or dies as a result, that was clearly avoidable. SAGE may well be somewhat culpable for the overall covid response, but this would be nothing to do with them as the advice is clear - work from home if you can. The government had a 3 line whip on this. Democratically and scientifically it is just wrong. Add in opening schools before TTI is proven to work, and announcing things such as BBQs on a Thursday evening in the middle of a glorious forecast (but don't have one until Monday!) and it does look as if they don't really care.

As a demonstration of the disconnect with reality, they are talking about air bridges to countries with low infection. For the past few days we have had more deaths (not sure on new infections) than the rest of the EU27 combined. We are a country with high infection, several EU countries have even said they will not allow people from the UK in until later in the year. They know all this but still won't level with people.


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The ones that do want Brits are desperate for the tourist income knowing it's a risk. Even I was shocked that we now have more daily deaths than the rest of the EU 27 put together ( a population of more than 400 million).

tomtom

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(Rant brewing...)

The problem with our (UK - OK, English) CV19 approach is that there is no strategy. Normally - you have an end goal/aim and you determine what you do to achieve this - your strategy. Within this there are a set of goals/aims/milestones whatever you want to call them.

This seems apparent with everything. EG. Testing. Our strategy seems to be to get to 100k then 200k tests a day. OK - thats improtant, but surely thats an aim within a strategy... what is the larger strategy here? to test the entire population? to test people coming into the country? to test a city once a week for a month? It really isnt clear! OF COURSE testing is vital to understanding and managing the outbreak and lockdown - but only if your strategy is sensible! Classic example of this is releasing patients from hospital to care homes without testing! Why?

Lets take PPE. Whats the strategy there?

TTI - ditto - 'do it for everyone' - er why? better localised where its important maybe? Built from the bottom up rather than top down..

Everything - seems to be strategy less... we're fighting fires instead of preventing them...

The only aspect where there seems to be a strategy - and policies are being made and exectuted to achieve that is for businesses...

Got to do some work but may rant more later...

ali k

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There are now constituencies in the UK with no effective representation in parliament because the MPs there are following the UK rules on shielding etc.
Johnson didn't quite seem to grasp the irony of performing a u-turn on this in PMQs yesterday (by allowing votes by proxy) while at the same time accusing Starmer of u-turns. His performance yesterday was risible - he may as well have just said "Mummy, this boy is being mean to me".

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John Crace spot on on PMQs as usual

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/03/no-hiding-place-for-boris-at-pmqs

 In the meantime I'll watch this news from Roy Lilley with interest.

The least I can do...
News and Comment from Roy Lilley

It was late.  We'd been to a conference. We we starving.  I pulled up outside a restaurant, my passenger nipped out; '... see if they had a table'...  '... sorry, they were fully booked'. I could see through the windows, the white table cloths, the twinkling candles and the empty chairs.  Stay here...  I swept past the manicured Bay Trees in the terracotta pots and pushed through the doors. 'D'you have a table for two?' Yes sir, right here... We parked and went back in.  The waiter was gobsmacked to see me with the woman he had just refused.  Nothing was said.  We sat down, went through the card. My colleague, was black.  West Indian, born and bred here, educated here, medical school here and a public health doctor here. Sadly, she died a few years ago.

That was the first time, in my white, suburban bubble, racial prejudice had touched my life. I ran a business, I recruited talent, not skin colour.  I was a councillor, a member of a health authority, what we now call BAME colleagues were abundant and valued.  It never dawned on me they were leading two lives.  A life with a thin veneer of equality and the real-world life of queues, bus seats, shops, pubs with an ugly undercurrent that I had never seen... until the night of the restaurant. We talked about that evening.  She told of her life; early years, career, work and struggle.  Because she was black.  How it was still a struggle for her kids.  Time and again, stopped in the street for no reason, other than they were black. Later, at the OU, I met two delightful women, celebrating their Masters in healthcare.  If I were a social demographer I'd call them Waitrose women.  John Lewis people! I asked them about their ambitions...  they didn't think they could get beyond middle management in the NHS... despite their new qualifications.  Because?  Because they were black.

When the nation started noticing more BAME colleagues were dying we asked the reasonable question... why? HMG needed to know if all BAME people were affected.  There is an issue about which and what jobs are most at risk.  We need to know if the clinical approach should be different and is the risk so high, black and ethnic colleagues need to be shielded and what the impact of that would be on rota, staffing and employment.  We needed to dig into, why?

Public Health England were assigned the task... on tight deadlines. By all accounts, they scraped-home.  Delivering the final report on Sunday 31st May. By Tuesday, when the report was published, it had become useless. Read it.  Frankly it is no more than a teenager could do, with a lap-top and Google. It is a succession of graphs, numbers, unanswered question, flam-flam and gobbledygook.

In answer to the question why are more BAME colleagues dying of CV-19, the answer the report gives us... because they are BAME. If this report were an item of foot-ware, it would be slippers.  If it was an offensive weapon it would be a cotton-bud.  If this was a serious academic study it would shame the professions from whence it came. Except... it is none of those things.  It is simply, incomplete.  It's a eunuch report.  A vital bit missing.  Between the Sunday deadline and the Tuesday publication, it was censored, a chapter removed and the report rejigged. Chunks of commentary and insight from ethnic groups and organisations, telling us back people are poorer: poor housing, poor-pay, poor access to services; still subject to discrimination; front-line exposure in vital services, vulnerability... were cut out. All the reasons that are inflammatory of public policy, an embarrassment for politicians of all flavours, that shame us and make it difficult to look in the mirror... were dumped.

PHE knows this.  My message to PHE is; publish the missing pages.  You owe it to every BAME person living in this country.  A country defined by the White Cliffs of Dover. Publish it PHE, or be damned.  And, if you won't, someone, send it to me and I will.  If you made a contribution to the report and it was left out, send it to me and I'll publish it.

It's the least I can do. 

Nigel

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Not confirmed as covid yet but it wouldn’t be a shock if it is. You really couldn’t make this up
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52910303

Missed this post Ali, I must have been writing. Alok Sharma is 52, BAME, and, being frank, not a waif. Fingers crossed it isn't actually covid for his sake. And for the sake of those he came in contact with in the House of Commons.

Even I was shocked that we now have more daily deaths than the rest of the EU 27 put together ( a population of more than 400 million).

Its quite something for a relatively small island nation.

ali k

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Alok Sharma is 52, BAME, and, being frank, not a waif. Fingers crossed it isn't actually covid for his sake.
Don't worry it's just hay fever! Profuse sweating being one of the classic symptoms of course...

mrjonathanr

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Quite a post from Lilley there! Will be interested to see how/if that develops.

One event which has attracted little interest is Suella Braverman’s tweet defending Dominic Cummings within 24 hrs of the news about his trip:

https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1264174355975671810
Quote
   Protecting one’s family is what any good parent does. The
@10DowningStreet statement clarifies the situation and it is wholly inappropriate to politicise it.   

Surely it is wholly inappropriate for the Attorney General, a key role to be conducted apolitically, to make political statements in support of individual cases of unlawful behaviour? She thinks not, which surely calls into question her understanding of and fitness for her job.

Robert Buckland, Lord Chancellor and Justice secretary, clearly takes a different view to Braverman:

Quote
After the revelations emerged over the weekend, I was glad to see Mr Cummings give an explanation as to why he acted as he did, and this has been rightly questioned by the media.

Durham police have investigated the situation and have concluded that whilst there might have been a minor breach, they will take no further action. You will appreciate that owing to the operational independence of the police and my constitutional duty as lord chancellor to uphold the rule of law, it would not be appropriate for me to give a view on the merits of an individual case.

I am, however, acutely conscious as to the strength of feeling on this issue, which I completely understand. This has left a deep impression on both me and colleagues in parliament and the government. 

This is not a trivial issue in view of the importance of her job.


ali k

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Paul B

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Surely it is wholly inappropriate for the Attorney General, a key role to be conducted apolitically, to make political statements in support of individual cases of unlawful behaviour? She thinks not, which surely calls into question her understanding of and fitness for her job.

I wrote to my MP (Nigel Evans; Deputy Speaker) about DC and SB. The reply pertained only to DC so I've followed up with another.

The DC response was better than I expected (I wasn't told it was closed or to move on) but my expectations were low ("strength of feeling" etc.).

https://twitter.com/AvaSantina/status/1268521863078166528?s=20

 :tumble:


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Byline Times on how press support has mainly gone to the big players with healthy reserves while small publishes struggle..

https://www.bylineinvestigates.com/mail/2020/6/2/exclusive-35m-covid-cash-fund-dominated-by-big-media-while-small-publishers-struggle

TobyD

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One event which has attracted little interest is Suella Braverman’s tweet defending Dominic Cummings within 24 hrs of the news about his trip:

https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1264174355975671810
Quote
   Protecting one’s family is what any good parent does. The
@10DowningStreet statement clarifies the situation and it is wholly inappropriate to politicise it.   

Surely it is wholly inappropriate for the Attorney General, a key role to be conducted apolitically, to make political statements in support of individual cases of unlawful behaviour? She thinks not, which surely calls into question her understanding of and fitness for her job.

Robert Buckland, Lord Chancellor and Justice secretary, clearly takes a different view to Braverman:

Quote
After the revelations emerged over the weekend, I was glad to see Mr Cummings give an explanation as to why he acted as he did, and this has been rightly questioned by the media.

Durham police have investigated the situation and have concluded that whilst there might have been a minor breach, they will take no further action. You will appreciate that owing to the operational independence of the police and my constitutional duty as lord chancellor to uphold the rule of law, it would not be appropriate for me to give a view on the merits of an individual case.

I am, however, acutely conscious as to the strength of feeling on this issue, which I completely understand. This has left a deep impression on both me and colleagues in parliament and the government. 

This is not a trivial issue in view of the importance of her job.

This was covered immediately after the story in several things I read (New Statesman possibly)?
As an AG comment like that would have prejudiced potential legal proceedings against Cummings as I understand it.

TobyD

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Doctor quits NHS over Dominic Cummings' refusal to resign

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jun/04/doctor-quits-nhs-over-dominic-cummings-refusal-to-resign-dominic-pimenta-second-wave-covid-19?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

I wonder if this will make any impact.

The Times  has a very critical leader article about Boris Johnson's refusal to admit that there have been issues with the pandemic response. 

SA Chris

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I wonder if this will make any impact.


Doubt it. They've clearly decided to ride this one out for better or worse.

ali k

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Doctor quits NHS over Dominic Cummings' refusal to resign
Yeh I saw his tweet at the time and wondered if he’d follow through with it. Very sad outcome. I wouldn’t blame others for following him though. As it stands, unless the story gains a lot of traction I can’t see a single resignation making any difference. He’s young as well so I hope he makes a success of whatever he goes on to do.

Nigel

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Lockdown was effective in controlling the spread of the virus. If TTI is to effectively replace lockdown then it needs to work. The app that was meant to be the panacea is now no longer talked about, the tracing is being outsourced to Serco, and the messaging has been torpedoed from the start. What could possibly go wrong?

'I can assure you that World beating Test and Trace will be fully operational by 1st June' -Johnson to Starmer at PMQs 2 weeks ago

4th June - 'Test and Trace not fully operational until September or October'

Chief exec of Serco - “If it succeeds … it will go a long way in cementing the position of the private sector companies in the public sector supply chain. Some of the naysayers recognise this, which is why they will take every opportunity to undermine us.”


Come on naysayers, stop talking Britain down! Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do to allow Serco to cement their place in the public sector supply chain. Answer - 3 to 4 months grace on a promise of a world beating TTI system. Not like we need it now anyway is it?

TobyD

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I wonder how anyone else feels about the mooted suspension of Sunday trading hours? Personally I've thought for a long time they're no more than an anachronistic pain in the ass and I'd be all for ditching them anyway. As to how much good it'll do in the crisis at the moment, I'm less certain...

ali k

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I wonder how anyone else feels about the mooted suspension of Sunday trading hours?
I agree it’s unlikely to increase people’s overall spend at the moment - if the funds aren’t there then a few extra hours opportunity on Sunday isn’t going to change that. It may be a good thing in terms of extra hours available to shop workers? (as long as there’s no obligation to work them and pay is uplifted accordingly for a Sunday).

Personally, I also get pissed off that I can’t do a big shop on the way back from the wall or crag on a Sunday sometimes, but on balance I think the restrictions should stay. I don’t think it’ll be a temporary change, and my fear is that it’ll just be another thing that normalises weekend working for no uplifted pay in the long run (across the board - not just for shop workers).
« Last Edit: June 07, 2020, 08:22:04 am by ali k »

tomtom

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It’s just another cheap. Political. Hit. One from the orchestrated PR unlockdown machine. No strategy - no real reasons - but it gets some headlines and makes people think we may be progressing.

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A BBC news feature on what a world class test, track, trace and treat system looks like.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000jy50/our-world-south-korea-how-to-fight-coronavirus

sdm

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Sunday trading laws are a blunt instrument that fails to achieve its supposed aim. The shops may only be open 10-16.00 but the staff are still working full shifts, coming in before the store opens, staying after the store closes and working full shifts restocking shelves in an empty store.

Weekend working for supermarket workers is already normalised. If you want to help the workers, then give them additional mandatory time off each week and/or additional pay for working on Sundays. Don't do it by using Sunday trading laws to pretend you are protecting workers then still have them in for full length shifts on a Sunday. It inconveniences the consumer without benefit to the staff. The timing is a cheap PR hit but Sunday trading laws should be scrapped for good.

In terms of reducing transmission of the virus, anything that reduces the number of people in an enclosed space at the same time can only be a good thing.

TobyD

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I wonder how anyone else feels about the mooted suspension of Sunday trading hours?
It may be a good thing in terms of extra hours available to shop workers? (as long as there’s no obligation to work them and pay is uplifted accordingly for a Sunday).

I have to work every fourth weekend for no extra. When I worked in shops, we didn't get any extra for Sundays,  I'm not saying that everyone should,  just worth saying that an awful lot of people work on Sunday anyway

It’s just another cheap. Political. Hit. One from the orchestrated PR unlockdown machine. No strategy - no real reasons - but it gets some headlines and makes people think we may be progressing.

Frankly I'd rather this than opening pubs too early or something which would be far worse.  There are no such regulations in the US and it doesn't seem to be the end of the world.  Other details of US working conditions are far worse,  obviously. 

mrjonathanr

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Hi Toby a bit of creativity in managing the economic response seems sensible but I do notice the contrast between your last two sentences.

Sunday trading laws are there to protect employees. Employment protection legislation is notoriously weak in the US. Where people have concerns relates to where this might be going. US style protections are not a destination many people want for themselves. As a short term measure, fine. Longer term, are we moving towards an erosion of employment rights? Given the composition of this government, that is perfectly possible.

 

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