[petejh]

Think ffp2 actually give decent protection to the wearer as well.

What level of improvement in protection of self or others makes ffp2 worth it is obviously a personal choice

I'd expect them to give decent protection, better than surgical mask. For 5 quid a mask I'd like them to do my shopping for me as well! The point being, how much protection to yourself and others do you really reasonably need over and above a cheap surgical mask? I hear diving masks are amazing.

edit: Slab, fair enough for your personal choice, as you clearly make it out to be. £5 is pretty steep price to pay for something like that imo.

[duncan]

For 5 quid a mask I'd like them to do my shopping for me as well!

You disappoint me Pete, I thought you were the wheeler dealer!

20 for £6.99 a month ago, still widely available at this price. More comfortable than regular surgical masks as they fit better and there is less of a tendency for my glasses to mist up.

[petejh]

Do you have a link?

I'll buy 500, sell them on ebay for £2 per mask and undercut boots 

[Fultonius]

Do you have a link?

I'll buy 500, sell them on ebay for £2 per mask and undercut boots 

Why don't your set up a fake PPE company and convince the tories to give you a massive contract?

[slab_happy]

Do you have a link?

I'll buy 500, sell them on ebay for £2 per mask and undercut boots 

Boots are already selling them for £2 -- that's a 5-pack! Still plenty of room to undercut them, though. I linked to Boots as a reference just because they're obvious and reputable and there is fake stuff floating around, but yeah, shop around and you can definitely get them cheaper.

[slab_happy]

Handy round-up of vaccination opportunities for the Sheffield crew:

https://sheffnews.com/news/access-to-covid-vaccinations-in-sheffield

[petejh]

Do you have a link?

I'll buy 500, sell them on ebay for £2 per mask and undercut boots 

Boots are already selling them for £2 -- that's a 5-pack! Still plenty of room to undercut them, though. I linked to Boots as a reference just because they're obvious and reputable and there is fake stuff floating around, but yeah, shop around and you can definitely get them cheaper.

 

[slab_happy]

If they were considered necessary wouldn't the WHO recommend them for public use?

I think you lack sufficient cynicism ... Remember, back in the beginning, they weren't doing this because there was a massive shortage of medical-grade PPE. So the rec was to leave it for the medical professionals, who were most at risk, and for the general public to use cloth masks instead (they're better than nothing, and I believe the good ones can get near surgical mask levels).

The picture re: aerosol transmission was also a lot less clear/more heavily debated at the start.

And that was also prior to multiple jumps in transmissibility -- Alpha (Kent variant) was more transmissible than Original Flavour, Delta much more transmissible than Alpha, and Omicron is now leaving Delta in the dust.

Some European states went to requiring medical grade masks for everyone earlier this year: https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/01/26/960893423/some-european-countries-move-to-require-medical-grade-masks-in-public

And the CDC's now shifted to saying that n95s can be used for personal use if they're in sufficient supply: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/types-of-masks.html

Decent article: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-we-need-to-upgrade-our-face-masks-and-where-to-get-them/

So yeah, with Omicron spiking and no shortage of FFP2s in the UK, I think it's a good moment to re-assess what you're doing, and decide whether or not you might want to upgrade temporarily.

For extra context: I spent a decent chunk of the past 20 months or so making cloth masks for people, and nerding out about materials science and how to make the best ones possible.

So it's probably a marker of something that I e-mailed a bunch of friends and family recently to say "hey, that lovely mask I made you? You might want to consider sticking it in a drawer for a bit and buying a pack of n95s instead."

(And some of them will and some of them won't -- individual trade-offs and all that -- but it's worth taking the moment to consider.)

[petejh]

If they were considered necessary wouldn't the WHO recommend them for public use?

I think you lack sufficient cynicism ... Remember, back in the beginning, they weren't doing this because there was a massive shortage of medical-grade PPE. So the rec was to leave it for the medical professionals, who were most at risk, and for the general public to use cloth masks instead (they're better than nothing, and I believe the good ones can get near surgical mask levels).

Some European states went to requiring medical grade masks for everyone earlier this year: https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/01/26/960893423/some-european-countries-move-to-require-medical-grade-masks-in-public

This is kind of my point. 'Medical grade masks' seems not to just mean FFP2 - that link says it includes surgical masks, which is what I've been using all year. And you can get surgical masks loads of places for free - I have a vehicle door full of them, although tbh I just tend to use the same black one I've used all year!

i.e. ''In Germany, the federal and state governments introduced measures last week making medical masks — identified as surgical masks or KN95 or FFP2 masks — mandatory in stores and on public transit. It also issued a recommendation that medical masks be worn whenever there is close or prolonged contact with other people, particularly in enclosed spaces.''


Hence why I'm wondering why bother with FFP2's, if surgical masks are almost as good and cheaper or free.

[mrjonathanr]

To those more knowledgeable than me.. do these look good? Thanks.
https://www.siteking.co.uk/kn95-face-masks

[colin8ll]

The problem I have with surgical masks is that I can never get a really tight seal around my face, whereas the FFP2 masks I've worn give a tight fit so I am much more confident that all the air is being pulled and pushed through the mask which should obviously increases safety. When I had a brief look at masks near the start of all this, some literature seemed to look at the qualities of the mask material and concluded no significant difference in performance between surgical and FFP2 for coronavirus, but gave the caveat of saying so long as face fit is equal. Therefore, I concluded that FFP2 would be better for me and likely many others.

[slab_happy]

Hence why I'm wondering why bother with FFP2 if surgical masks are almost as good

Because surgical masks aren't "almost as good" as FFP2 -- there's a major difference in both filtration efficiency and fit (look up the respective specs if you don't believe me). Which is why some countries (like Germany) are specifying FFP2, not just "medical grade".

You might feel they're not worth the extra cost or hassle or whatever, or that it's overkill, but the difference in specs is significant.

[petejh]

Which is why some countries (like Germany) are specifying FFP2, not just "medical grade".

You might feel they're not worth the extra cost or hassle or whatever, or that it's overkill, but the difference in specs is significant.

I've no issues believing that an FFP2 mask more effectively filters particles than a surgical mask - I do after all work in an industry where I'm required to specify either an FFP2 or FFP3 mask as a routine part of carrying out work.

This is the part that's causing confusion - if you read the source you've posted, and look into what 'medical grade' refers to, you'll see Germany *aren't* specifying FFP2 masks. They are specifying surgical masks or FFP2.

[slab_happy]

Okay, I stand corrected; the article says that Bavaria and Austria have specified FFP2, whereas Germany as a whole is only insisting on "medical grade".

[slab_happy]

To those more knowledgeable than me.. do these look good? Thanks.
https://www.siteking.co.uk/kn95-face-masks

Potentially useful: https://bda.org/advice/Coronavirus/Documents/spotting-fake-face-masks.pdf

[Muenchener]

Okay, I stand corrected; the article says that Bavaria and Austria have specified FFP2, whereas Germany as a whole is only insisting on "medical grade".

This is correct re Bavaria. Source: Bavarian resident. I can't be bothered to look up the exact dates, sorry, but we went from "any face covering" to surgical-or-FFP2 some time back in the summer for a few weeks, then to FFP2-only shortly afterwards.

Masks required in: shops, public transport, restaurants when not seated, walls when not actually climbing. At one point we even had two blissful weeks of "masks completely optional at the wall". I think there's an exception for schools due to comfort over long periods - not sure about the letter of the law but my son generally takes a surgical mask when he goes out in the morning.

And despite more stringent mask regulations than the rest of the country, we still manage to also have higher covid incidence than other states most of the time due to a high level of antivax idiocy.

[slab_happy]

The problem I have with surgical masks is that I can never get a really tight seal around my face, whereas the FFP2 masks I've worn give a tight fit so I am much more confident that all the air is being pulled and pushed through the mask which should obviously increases safety. When I had a brief look at masks near the start of all this, some literature seemed to look at the qualities of the mask material and concluded no significant difference in performance between surgical and FFP2 for coronavirus, but gave the caveat of saying so long as face fit is equal. Therefore, I concluded that FFP2 would be better for me and likely many others.

Yeah, there are some studies suggesting that you can get relatively close to FFP2/n95 level protection if you close all the gaps round the edges of a surgical mask.

That's why "double-masking" is pretty effective, because a well-fitted cloth mask with a nose wire on top of a surgical mask closes the gaps, even if it's not adding that much in filtration power. On the other hand, that's harder to breathe through than an FFP2.

Or there's the technique for knotting and tucking in surgical masks: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7007e1.htm?s_cid=mm7007e1_w

So, various options for upping one's game, should one wish. But "buy a pack of FFP2s" is a pretty simple one.

Of course, if you've got the mask covering your nose, that puts you ahead of a decent chunk of the population ...

[abarro81]

]
Pf booster felt fine for 12 hours then woke up in night with sweats and heart pounding, really rough for 24 hrs, fine after 48. Have spoken to a few with similar.

I think I'm in the middle part of this - was fine from being boosted on Friday eve until Sat afternoon (unlike AZ1 where it only took a few hrs to feel rough) then went downhill and felt horrible overnight (sweating, headache, couldn't sleep). Fingers crossed like you it will be better by tomorrow!

[Wood FT]

I’m down to 55% functionality after a Moderna booster ( 2 x Pf previously).

Cricket not helping the general feeling of woe.

[Muenchener]

So, various options for upping one's game, should one wish. But "buy a pack of FFP2s" is a pretty simple one.

If you want to up your game a bit more, I've been using ones similar to these babies for the last few months:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/HARD-FFP2-Face-Mask-Germany/dp/B092VQVX1Q/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=ffp2&qid=1639910468&sr=8-2

Much more comfortable than the usual seam-down-the-middle style if you're wearing them for more than a few minutes

[mrjonathanr]

Do they carry the EN 149:2001 and. CE marking?

[Muenchener]

The ones I'm buying over here do. No idea about that particular link, they're just the first picture I could find of something similar being sold in the uk.

[mrjonathanr]

Cheers, thanks for replying.

[Nails]

Should we maybe have a topic split for mask discussion?

[slab_happy]

Anyone over 50 (or over 18 with one of the listed underlying health conditions) -- might wanna bookmark this in case you are unlucky enough to get a breakthrough infection:

https://twitter.com/NIHRresearch/status/1471450449744117762
https://www.panoramictrial.org/

Get a chance to take promising new antivirals, contribute to Science. All done remotely with meds couriered to your home.

Based on my vaccine trial experiences, you get really, really well looked after in trials.