[dunnyg]

word

[Oldmanmatt]

Still 2000+ new cases everyday...

We have been going down to Babbacombe/Oddicombe to swim, snorkel, dive, paddle board etc etc (I swam from Petitor point to Long Quarry point (caught two lobsters too), scrambled up to Walls hill and ran back in wetsuit boots. Second part not recommended).
Generally it’s been fine. Distancing ok. The odd daft bunch, but nothing serious.
But, the worrying thing was the groups of teenage boys (jumping/tombstoning) who clearly didn’t get it. Many of them mates of my eldest son. Their parents were not aware. Knew they were out, thought they were savvy enough. One is the son of an A&E Sister (good mate of Mrs OMM).
Words were had. Couldn’t give a flying fuck if that makes us snitches.

Today, however, a party of dick heads turned up. Round from Teignmouth, with a floating fucking bar (Seriously, thatched shack on an oil drum pontoon/raft and an outboard) and a few small cruisers. Obviously not cohabiting, mostly overweight (and over 60) blokes and families on and off the bar and each others boats. Very nearly on a par with that Infamous pool party in the US.

I was restrained.

I didn’t lob any rocks at the twats. Mainly because Mrs OMM hinted at testicle removal if I made a scene, again...

Anyway, as I said to her, they’re doing it to themselves, I don’t need to.

I really fucking hope this thing is seasonal.

[Duma]

I swam from Petitor point to Long Quarry point (caught two lobsters too)

OT, but I am supremely jealous of this

[SA Chris]

I'm busting out the wetsuit and paddleboard as of tomorrow. 4 days of practically flat calm and sun.

[TobyD]

Just been out with the Family to Delamere.. (forest tracks - bike trails etc...) and it was rammed (like a weekend on a nice day).
Not much social distancing going on along the main paths - especially with large family groups.

It’s fucked tomtom.

I was at Ilkley the other day and it was the same - big groups of lads all congregating, teenage couples snogging (too young to be moved out and living together), extended families nowhere near social distancing. Local Tesco this morning had no queuing system, way too many people in there, a one way route that everyone was ignoring and people bumping into each other - I just walked out. Plumber was round to fix the toilet this morning - no mask, no concern (“It’s all a bit over the top this corona thing isn’t it”), touching everything in sight, had been working all the way through (“I’ll get a bit from the govt but not much cos you know us plumbers we fiddle it don’t we”), admitted to visiting his family regularly.

It’s all just fucked.

I can't help but agree with you here, on the evidence of cycling around the peak today. Large groups of motorbikers stopped in places all sat about with beers like they were in a pub, probably the worst. I overheard some people in a campervan in a car park the other day proudly telling someone parked next to them that they'd been there for three days.
Surely it's only a matter of time until the infection rate starts soaring again.

[Bonjoy]

Agree. Seems people can't deal with middle ground. It's either lockdown or BAU for a significant enough proportion of the populace to pretty much negate the effort of the rest. That's how it looks anyway.
You've got to hope that a certain type of herd immunity eventually emerges, whereby all the headless chickens who think SD is a waste of time have already caught the thing. Total carnage seems likely in the meantime.

[Oldmanmatt]

Agree. Seems people can't deal with middle ground. It's either lockdown or BAU for a significant enough proportion of the populace to pretty much negate the effort of the rest. That's how it looks anyway.
You've got to hope that a certain type of herd immunity eventually emerges, whereby all the headless chickens who think SD is a waste of time have already caught the thing. Total carnage seems likely in the meantime.

By coincidence, an old friend just put the following on FB:

“ I have been seeing a lot of posts about how effective the Government have been at controlling the pandemic in the UK. Having been working at a Covid 19 testing site, I feel any failings are due to the stupidity of people, rather than a massive failing on the government. I am not protecting them, or saying that one party is better than the other. As I feel with this unprecedented pandemic, all parties would have suffered a similar fate. However, when a car full of people, all about the same age, turn up to be tested and it is only the driver being tested, then you have to ask, why the other 3 people need to be in the car, especially if the driver feels they have shown enough symptoms to go through testing. Then to top it off, they drive across the road to the Range and all go shopping! It is the idiotic general populous that will bring us down, more than the government! Rant over”

[Offwidth]

A story about extreme boldness in cliff jumps with a photograph of the worst social distancing outside that I've seen and a classic Grauniad typo.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/31/durdle-door-remains-closed-after-three-injured-cliff-jumps-dorset

[Nigel]

By coincidence, an old friend just put the following on FB:

“ I have been seeing a lot of posts about how effective the Government have been at controlling the pandemic in the UK. Having been working at a Covid 19 testing site, I feel any failings are due to the stupidity of people, rather than a massive failing on the government. I am not protecting them, or saying that one party is better than the other. As I feel with this unprecedented pandemic, all parties would have suffered a similar fate. However, when a car full of people, all about the same age, turn up to be tested and it is only the driver being tested, then you have to ask, why the other 3 people need to be in the car, especially if the driver feels they have shown enough symptoms to go through testing. Then to top it off, they drive across the road to the Range and all go shopping! It is the idiotic general populous that will bring us down, more than the government! Rant over”

In the interests of balance, these 4 people all about the same age could have been a household, and the driver could have been a key worker (NHS or care) and eligible for a test even if totally asymptomatic. Their employer may have requested they get a weekly test as a precaution. Then they go to buy essentials. Of course your friend may well be right and its a bunch of people who don't care, but its not a given. There are two sides to every story and that is only one - it looks different if its a household of 4 nurses doing the right thing by getting a test.

The "idiotic general populus" as your friend calls them have managed to get the R rate below 1 by, generally, doing what was asked of them during lockdown. Yes there will always be genuine idiots, but we shouldn't lose our sense of solidarity because of that. We will all have stories - I saw a group of about 10 huddled beneath Kudos wall a couple of days ago. Yes its bad, and stuff like that may well contribute negatively *if* we have a second wave. But they did not cause for e.g. the estimated 40% of total deaths so far being in care homes, or the lack of PPE for medics.

[Stu Littlefair]

There's a lot to pick at with that reply Nigel, but to start:

Public behaviour could be exemplary during lockdown, and rubbish in this new phase. The amount of total disregard for guidelines I saw this weekend suggest the general public are going to be very bad at this next phase. I saw many instances of groups of 10+ people of all ages sat round a picnic blanket or table sharing food, amongst many other examples this weekend. Prior to this, the vast majority of people out and about behaved sensibly.

The 40% deaths in care homes is a disgrace and lack of PPE/care home policy/hospital discharge may have played the major role in this. But someone brought the virus into the care home. Where did they catch it? Chains of infection start somewhere and if people are behaving like this when we are still seeing 8000 new cases a day.... 

[Bonjoy]

Prior to this, the vast majority of people out and about behaved sensibly.

This is my feeling based on what I'm seeing now.
The lockdown solidarity seems broken. People very much follow the herd it seems. The general mood was compliant when the stay home message was in place. Now I think the mood is 'we've done lockdown' and people are looking for social cues to back this up, and return to pre-lockdown behaviour. Once a few people act this way lots follow and then many more start to wonder if it's worth persisting with SD if others aren't.

[SA Chris]

Herd stupidity is endemic sadly.

I've seen photos of beaches and beauty spots left in a disgusting state up here, like people have been let out of cages and forgotten how to behave.

I wonder if it's a backlash from the Cummings affair, or just idiocy.

[mrjonathanr]

Once a few people act this way lots follow and then many more start to wonder if it's worth persisting with SD if others aren't.

I quite like the idea of not getting infected, personally.
 A lot of young people will be finding isolation and social distance very unnatural and rather see this as someone else's problem.  Big problem losing the feeling of solidarity, Cummings debacle really doesn't help.

[nik at work]

I wonder if it's a backlash from the Cummings affair, or just idiocy.

Not condoning DC’s movements and subsequent handling but anyone who uses that as an excuse to behave like an idiot is...
Well...
Still an idiot.

The idea that DC can be held responsible for hordes of people turning into brainless bellends is laughable. His actions certainly haven’t helped, but there’s always another reason to justify doing what you want regardless of whether there is a handy DC scandal to fall back on or not.

[Will Hunt]

The people having barbecues on moorland, packing onto crowded beaches, cramming into a Corsa and passing round a spliff, and going for a picnic with a hookah and leaving their shit behind are chavs. That is their variety of rule-breaking and lack of care. I don't think it's credible that these people saw the Cummings story and acted accordingly.

The gangs of people crowding round at sport crags and moaning about the groups of motorbikers in laybys they passed on the way are breaking the rules too. They might set off with the intention to keep two metres apart but inevitably it doesn't happen religiously (how religiously it needs to happen is up for debate - brushing past your partner a few times is not going to transmit the virus). That's our type of rule-breaking and lack of care.

Most societal demographics are rule-breaking in some way, though as far as we can see they're generally doing it outdoors, so who knows, maybe the transmission risk remains low? We'll soon find out.

It's wrong, but it's human nature that until a family member or close friend is seriously affected, most people will assume that this is just something that happens to other people.

[ali k]

Re: The Cummings effect. There are plenty of people that act like dickheads at the best of times (see the amount of litter along the sides of roads for a start). And there might not be that many people who are going out specifically because they read about the DC affair. But it’s increased the wiggle room, allowed people to think their circumstances don’t have to be in any way exceptional to justify bending or breaking the rules, and also in a lot of cases has probably been the final straw if they were wavering over whether to do what they’ve been desperate to do for a while. Add that all together, along with the desperation of the govt to cover over their failings by pushing good news stories and suppressing calls for restraint by the scientists and it’s no surprise people think it’s business as usual. That’s potentially tens of millions of people now making decisions based on their own instincts and specific personal circumstances rather than national
solidarity. When the weather breaks we’re even more fucked.

[SA Chris]

Exactly. I can't help but think the DC debacle was not the primary cause, but i suspect it's exacerbated it. Not to the point of rioting, but people are still angry to the point of rebellion and it certainly didn't help.

[tomtom]

It’s not Cummings behaviour that’s the problem - the issue is that he wasn’t punished (in ANY shape or form) and has not apologised at all.

Green light that you can get away with whatever you want. From the very top.

[ali k]

It’s not Cummings behaviour that’s the problem - the issue is that he wasn’t punished (in ANY shape or form) and has not apologised at all.

Green light that you can get away with whatever you want. From the very top.

His behaviour is a bit of a problem. He wrote the guidance, or at least helped to (and undoubtedly signed off on it) but then failed to follow it. The lack of punishment has nakedly exposed who actually runs No 10 and shown the arrogance and lack of humility of Cummings, but the initial behaviour was also wrong. He’s either proved his own guidance wasn’t clear in the first place (if he can interpret it differently to >80% of the population - I don’t believe this btw), or he thought he was special and it didn’t apply to him (then used a loophole meant for victims of domestic violence as an excuse when he was caught - more likely). Either way his behaviour was bad from the start and just got worse and worse IMO.

[mrjonathanr]

The impact of his nonsense is unquantifiable. For some -many- people it will cut through, for others it will be 90% off the radar, although 'that guy in govt who gets away with not following guidance' will have percolated through to everyone who hasn't been living in a rabbit hole this last week or so.

It will have a big enough impact though, if not changing people's decisions outright then certainly making discipline weaken. When things are coming unstuck, the last thing anyone needs is more confusion in the message.

[TobyD]

It's wrong, but it's human nature that until a family member or close friend is seriously affected, most people will assume that this is just something that happens to other people.

I see patients recovering from the worst stages of it at work, and frankly given the state of many of them a couple of months down the line, I think that people need to get a lot more scared. You might get a mild case, or, you might get death or several months of agony and struggling to find the energy to stand up.

[TobyD]

It’s not Cummings behaviour that’s the problem - the issue is that he wasn’t punished (in ANY shape or form) and has not apologised at all.

Green light that you can get away with whatever you want. From the very top.

His behaviour is a bit of a problem. He wrote the guidance, or at least helped to (and undoubtedly signed off on it) but then failed to follow it. The lack of punishment has nakedly exposed who actually runs No 10 and shown the arrogance and lack of humility of Cummings, but the initial behaviour was also wrong. He’s either proved his own guidance wasn’t clear in the first place (if he can interpret it differently to >80% of the population - I don’t believe this btw), or he thought he was special and it didn’t apply to him (then used a loophole meant for victims of domestic violence as an excuse when he was caught - more likely). Either way his behaviour was bad from the start and just got worse and worse IMO.

I'm totally willing to try to see the best in people and give them the benefit of the doubt, but Cummings is just full of shit. His half arsed excuses aren't different interpretation, he clearly went on a day trip for his wife's birthday whilst spending a week or at the family pile in the country. He thought he was above rules and far too clever for anyone. He's less believable than the Russians who perpetrated the Salisbury chemical weapons attack.

[SA Chris]

I see patients recovering from the worst stages of it at work, and frankly given the state of many of them a couple of months down the line, I think that people need to get a lot more scared. You might get a mild case, or, you might get death or several months of agony and struggling to find the energy to stand up.

I hear this time and again. Speaking to a friend on the weekend, she said she probably contracted it  at a conference before lockdown, from sitting next to someone a few hours who had it (so moderate load she thought) and she was in bed for a week, and is only now feeling like she can do any running at all, and that is still very slow and very short distances. She reasonably fit and healthy and in early 40s.

[Oldmanmatt]

I see patients recovering from the worst stages of it at work, and frankly given the state of many of them a couple of months down the line, I think that people need to get a lot more scared. You might get a mild case, or, you might get death or several months of agony and struggling to find the energy to stand up.

I hear this time and again. Speaking to a friend on the weekend, she said she probably contracted it  at a conference before lockdown, from sitting next to someone a few hours who had it (so moderate load she thought) and she was in bed for a week, and is only now feeling like she can do any running at all, and that is still very slow and very short distances. She reasonably fit and healthy and in early 40s.

I linked to the Military Times article earlier in the thread, but diagnosis and recovery from C19, regardless of the severity of your case, permanently bars you from service in the US military (any branch).
That’s an unusual stance. There is speculation amongst the comments on the original article posting, that more is known about the potential long term effects, than has been generally discussed in the media. The US Navy, has had a large number of cases and given the “captive” nature of those cases, has probably had ample opportunities to follow them in more detail than cases in the general population might be.
Or, they have just over reacted, with an abundance of caution, in good old bureaucratic black or white...
 

[slab_happy]

I see patients recovering from the worst stages of it at work, and frankly given the state of many of them a couple of months down the line, I think that people need to get a lot more scared. You might get a mild case, or, you might get death or several months of agony and struggling to find the energy to stand up.

In addition to the brutally long recovery for people who've been hospitalized, especially people who've been on ventilators etc., there also seems to be a phenomenon where some people get fairly mild cases but very prolonged post-viral symptoms:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/15/weird-hell-professor-advent-calendar-covid-19-symptoms-paul-garner

This is a weird fucking virus.