[SA Chris]

This lady is not for turning.

Think it was a policy deliberately set up to back down (want to say straw dog, but not sure that's the right term) on while the other ridiculous new policies remain in place?

[Wellsy]

I dunno if one would do something that makes them look so awful on purpose...

Robinson said in any other job Kwarteng would be sacked, and he's right. 65bn from the BoE is the cost of his idiocy.

[SA Chris]

Probably right, hard to believe though.

[TobyD]

This lady is not for turning.

Think it was a policy deliberately set up to back down (want to say straw dog, but not sure that's the right term) on while the other ridiculous new policies remain in place?

No I think they genuinely think it's the right thing to do, and still do, but Shapps and Gove openly criticising it on the media and threatening rebellion meant they might lose a vote on the bill, which would have made them look worse.
I think Kwarteng and Truss are proper idealoges, they really believe all this crap, despite it being unpopular.

[BrutusTheBear]

This lady is not for turning.

Think it was a policy deliberately set up to back down (want to say straw dog, but not sure that's the right term) on while the other ridiculous new policies remain in place?

No I think they genuinely think it's the right thing to do, and still do, but Shapps and Gove openly criticising it on the media and threatening rebellion meant they might lose a vote on the bill, which would have made them look worse.
I think Kwarteng and Truss are proper idealoges, they really believe all this crap, despite it being unpopular.

Crispin Odey (Tory donor and Kwarteng's former boss) also thinks it's the right thing to do.  He's been openly boasting about all the money he has made.  Corruption!  Not even trying to hide it.

[lukeyboy]

This lady is not for turning.

Think it was a policy deliberately set up to back down (want to say straw dog, but not sure that's the right term) on while the other ridiculous new policies remain in place?

No I think they genuinely think it's the right thing to do, and still do, but Shapps and Gove openly criticising it on the media and threatening rebellion meant they might lose a vote on the bill, which would have made them look worse.
I think Kwarteng and Truss are proper idealoges, they really believe all this crap, despite it being unpopular.

Kwasi strikes me as the typical Etonian; unshakeable self-confidence and thinks he is too clever to listen to what anyone else thinks. I'm not convinced that Liz believes anything, or even has her own ideas.

[i.munro]

I dunno if one would do something that makes them look so awful on purpose...

Robinson said in any other job Kwarteng would be sacked, and he's right. 65bn from the BoE is the cost of his idiocy.

Am I understanding correctly here? The big part of the tax giveaway to the rich (the part that crashed the pound) is still going ahead. They've backed down on a (relatively)  small part only. So they've managed to distract everyone with the 45% rate part.

[Will Hunt]

Correct.

[i.munro]

Cheers

[Oldmanmatt]

This lady is not for turning.

Think it was a policy deliberately set up to back down (want to say straw dog, but not sure that's the right term) on while the other ridiculous new policies remain in place?

No I think they genuinely think it's the right thing to do, and still do, but Shapps and Gove openly criticising it on the media and threatening rebellion meant they might lose a vote on the bill, which would have made them look worse.
I think Kwarteng and Truss are proper idealoges, they really believe all this crap, despite it being unpopular.

Kwasi strikes me as the typical Etonian; unshakeable self-confidence and thinks he is too clever to listen to what anyone else thinks. I'm not convinced that Liz believes anything, or even has her own ideas.

I think she could swallow an entire pint of ice cream, in one,  and not have to worry about brain freeze…

[SA Chris]

Kwasi strikes me as the typical Etonian; unshakeable self-confidence and thinks he is too clever to listen to what anyone else thinks.

As mentioned before, classic Dunning Kruger.

[Wellsy]

A lot of people say that Truss is a real idealist, a proper Hayekian. I'm not sure but she definitely seems dogmatic. Maybe she is just an empty vessel though

[Oldmanmatt]

A lot of people say that Truss is a real idealist, a proper Hayekian. I'm not sure but she definitely seems dogmatic. Maybe she is just an empty vessel though

And some are definitely in the latter, “empty vessel” camp:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/04e69744-4285-11ed-abc9-d0d53e948d21?fbclid=IwAR1A197oDFCyq6BnL4Nz5KarN3FCyEbZKjlO1_H9vHCEzjLeXM7DMt9D_c8

And thing like that must really smart back in Tory HQ…

[Wellsy]

At this stage I'll take anyone who will get us a Labour government

[steveri]

They’re living in a bizarre echo chamber of hand picked cronies. (Same as the rest of us, but most of us don’t have a country to wreck).

Party chair continues to issue tin eared nonsense “if you’re struggling with the cost of living, just get a better job” https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-conference-jobs-bills-economy-b2190968.html

Continued mandate to march on with the 2019 manifesto… like no more austerity. Benefits will or won’t  rise with inflation. That’s not then. Except the pensioners, good demographic to court that.

Tories become so much more credible out of office… https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/03/liz-truss-picked-cronies-off-backbenches-for-cabinet-says-michael-heseltine

Strong hints of a sea change though, back benchers likely have more likely to rebel. It works, the whip line is becoming increasingly indefensible and a good chunk of them realise they’ll be out next time anyway.

Imagine making a £65bn mistake and thinking “ok, that was a distraction, let’s all move on”.

[mrjonathanr]

Or approximately £1000 of additional government debt, serviced at higher interest, for every UK man, woman and child. Let’s hope he doesn’t make any big mistakes.
 

Heseltine has always been more straightforward than the average Tory, fwiw.

[TobyD]

Or approximately £1000 of additional government debt, serviced at higher interest, for every UK man, woman and child. Let’s hope he doesn’t make any big mistakes.
 

Heseltine has always been more straightforward than the average Tory, fwiw.

There are many well intentioned,  highly capable Conservative MPs,  of whom Heseltine was one.
However the front rank of the current government is so far looking extremely incompetent.  I think that you always know that a politician is losing the argument,  or has already lost it, if they say how clear they are.  Liz Truss says how clear she is every 2 minutes. 

Quote from Politico, today: “She started very poorly, and in my experience, what you see is what you get. People aren’t mysteriously really shit, and then become really good,” one senior Tory MP said.
https://www.politico.eu/article/liz-truss-is-for-turning-but-it-may-be-too-late/

[petejh]

Yeah this. The contrast in ability between Truss and Sunak was stark imo but the loons chose the useful idiot in Truss.

[steveri]

The last lot felt like the cabinet of none of the talents, these seem lighter still. I see now it was Heseltine that Johnson in when he gave up the Henley constituency. If only he could have been kept going with some complicated arrangement of wires and tubes we might have been spared some pain. He sits in the Lords as an independent now for having one too many of his own opinions. Their loss.

[andy popp]

I thought I'd pretty much seen it all last week, but they've managed to take government chaos and buffoonery to previously unimagined heights today. It really is something else. Bravo!

[mrjonathanr]

Or approximately £1000 of additional government debt, serviced at higher interest, for every UK man, woman and child. Let’s hope he doesn’t make any big mistakes.
 

Heseltine has always been more straightforward than the average Tory, fwiw.

There are many well intentioned,  highly capable Conservative MPs,  of whom Heseltine was one.

I beg to differ. You overestimate the quality and integrity of the intake if Heseltine was simply ‘one of many’ and at the same time do a disservice to the man.

[Oldmanmatt]

Or approximately £1000 of additional government debt, serviced at higher interest, for every UK man, woman and child. Let’s hope he doesn’t make any big mistakes.
 

Heseltine has always been more straightforward than the average Tory, fwiw.

There are many well intentioned,  highly capable Conservative MPs,  of whom Heseltine was one.

I beg to differ. You overestimate the quality and integrity of the intake if Heseltine was simply ‘one of many’ and at the same time do a disservice to the man.

Back in the day, when my boss at the time, Ashcroft (not then lord) and Heseltine vied for control of the party. Hague was shadow PM and Ashcroft’s proxy/puppet. Ashcroft was appallingly heartless and keen to create an underclass of  cheap labour in the UK and H seemed positively angelic in comparison. A socially responsible conservative, almost liberal (Ashcroft was the reason I left the party and have moved left dramatically since). I respect Heseltine, though I can’t say I’ve really followed his political career for a couple of decades (I guess I just ditched the UK as a bad job from 2000 until 2008 ish and came back pretty anti-Tory when I did return).

[Wellsy]

Ashcroft was behind that whole pig gate story wasn't he?

[Oldmanmatt]

Ashcroft was behind that whole pig gate story wasn't he?

Yes. As I understand it, Cameron was H’s man (or, at least, H’s faction’s man) and it was a bit of a power play, that backfired. As far as I’m aware, they both lost out to another faction and both stars have faded, though Ashcroft remains quite influential. The Grandees really run the show. Power behind the throne, sort of thing. I think that’s why leadership choice was pushed out to party membership. To curtail the Grandee’s influence, to some degree. Analogous to factions of Labour moving to curtail Union influence, I suppose.

[TobyD]

Or approximately £1000 of additional government debt, serviced at higher interest, for every UK man, woman and child. Let’s hope he doesn’t make any big mistakes.
 

Heseltine has always been more straightforward than the average Tory, fwiw.

There are many well intentioned,  highly capable Conservative MPs,  of whom Heseltine was one.

I beg to differ. You overestimate the quality and integrity of the intake if Heseltine was simply ‘one of many’ and at the same time do a disservice to the man.

Well,  we'll have to agree to disagree then, I still think that there are many Conservative MPs who are capable and have the best intentions,  I might not agree with them, but they are perfectly decent.  I think the current situation is that the government is awful,  and appears naive,  arrogant and incompetent.  Labour is looking pretty credible,  for example Rachel Reeves is an ex B of E economist, Kwarsi Kwarteng , as far  as I know, worked at a hedge fund.  Yvette cooper is far more experienced and on top of her brief than Suella Braverman.  The Conservatives seem to be mainly concerned with ripping chunks out of each other: https://news.sky.com/story/home-secretary-suella-braverman-attacks-tory-mps-who-staged-coup-over-45p-tax-rate-12711959