[Offwidth]

Local politics... my tory Police Commissioner, who campaigned on being tough on speeding  is now banned and fined after multiple 30mph speed limit breaches, two near schools. She apologies and looks forward to continuing  in her role.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jul/18/tory-police-boss-banned-driving-breaking-speed-limit-five-times-caroline-henry

What the hell happened to resignations?

[Mike Highbury]

Local politics... my tory Police Commissioner, who campaigned on being tough on speeding  is now banned and fined after multiple 30mph speed limit breaches, two near schools. She apologies and looks forward to continuing  in her role.

Multiple breaches including 35mph in a 30 limit. Gosh, what a sinner.

[Offwidth]

We clearly have very different views on the standards a Police and Crime Commissioner (especially one who was campaigning on speeding in 30 zones at the time) should be held to.

[teestub]

Multiple breaches including 35mph in a 30 limit. Gosh, what a sinner.

Chance of killing a child increases from 1/2 to 9/10 between 30 and 40 mph.

[Bradders]

We clearly have very different views on the standards a Police and Crime Commissioner (especially one who was campaigning on speeding in 30 zones at the time) should be held to.

+1. There's absolutely no excuse; it's 30 for a reason.

[mrjonathanr]

Local politics... my tory Police Commissioner, who campaigned on being tough on speeding  is now banned and fined after multiple 30mph speed limit breaches, two near schools. She apologies and looks forward to continuing  in her role.

Multiple breaches including 35mph in a 30 limit. Gosh, what a sinner.

I’d say these are serious offences. 30 limit is put in place to protect pedestrians.

Given the tolerance of the speed measurement for accuracy to ensure a conviction, you can be confident she was clocked at around and over 40mph in a 30mph limit several times.

30mph = 20% chance of killing a pedestrian vs 40 mph = 90% chance of fatality.
The reason is that bumpers hit pedestrians on their legs, below their centre of gravity. The energy at 30mph pushes a pedestrian backwards, whereas at 40mph it is sufficient to cause a rotation spinning the pedestrian up into the air with much more serious injuries as a result.

[Mike Highbury]

I’d say these are serious offences. 30 limit is put in place to protect pedestrians.

Given the tolerance of the speed measurement for accuracy to ensure a conviction, you can be confident she was clocked at around and over 40mph in a 30mph limit several times.

I expect the PCC, police officers and judges to be just like us and to commit similar offences. And, similar to a police officer or judge, I don't think that a person responsible for the democratic control of the police to have to stand down for this or many other offences.

And, no, I doubt that the equipment to measure speed is as inaccurate as you suggest or it would be subject to challenge in court.

[Will Hunt]

The lowest speed she was clocked at was 35mph. So her speedo would have said about 38mph. Not the sort of thing that happens through a momentary lapse. Then she does it at higher speeds 3 other times over a long period. She clearly doesn't give a shit about the speed limits, which is a pretty shit position for a commissioner. Of course she should go.

[Carliios]

The lowest speed she was clocked at was 35mph. So her speedo would have said about 38mph. Not the sort of thing that happens through a momentary lapse. Then she does it at higher speeds 3 other times over a long period. She clearly doesn't give a shit about the speed limits, which is a pretty shit position for a commissioner. Of course she should go.

Especially since she ran on specifically lowering speeding.

[mrjonathanr]

I expect the PCC, police officers and judges to be just like us and to commit similar offences. And, similar to a police officer or judge, I don't think that a person responsible for the democratic control of the police to have to stand down for this or many other offences.

And, no, I doubt that the equipment to measure speed is as inaccurate as you suggest or it would be subject to challenge in court.

I don’t suggest the equipment is inaccurate, you misunderstand the point about tolerances.

Nor did I comment on her career. I simply want people who are a danger to the community off the road. And make no mistake, the multiple offences in a short space of time are those for which she has been successfully prosecuted. There will be others.

[petejh]

Dawes, Moon, Moffatt = celebrated in part for burning around in their hot hatches and waxing lyrical bullshit about ‘momentary grip’.
Stupid tory crime commissioner caught doing 35 in a 30 and being hypocritical = must resign and hang head in shame.

Such is life in the cesspit of politics.

[teestub]

Dawes, Moon, Moffatt = celebrated in part for burning around in their hot hatches and waxing lyrical bullshit about ‘momentary grip’.
Stupid tory crime commissioner caught doing 35 in a 30 and being hypocritical = must resign and hang head in shame.

Such is life in the cesspit of politics.

About timing as much as politics I guess. Some 30something dude with a soul patch, wrap arounds and No Fear boasting about being able to get to Burbage in 5 minutes by speeding along Eccy Road might not go down so well today. Likewise our PCC here was probably only a brown envelope away from any problems in the ‘90s.

[abarro81]

"I expect the PCC, police officers and judges to be just like us and to commit similar offences" - how many people you know have been caught speeding 5 times in 3 months or whatever it was?!

[remus]

Dawes, Moon, Moffatt = celebrated in part for burning around in their hot hatches and waxing lyrical bullshit about ‘momentary grip’.
Stupid tory crime commissioner caught doing 35 in a 30 and being hypocritical = must resign and hang head in shame.

Such is life in the cesspit of politics.

I think you're under selling the hypocrisy part. If you're going to campaign on how important 30mph speed limits are then what does it say if you then go and flagrantly disregard those limits yourself? Where's the strength of her conviction? And given she clearly doesn't care about it as much as she professes too why should anyone else? If you make the law you fucking well need to stick to it.

[petejh]

Or you know, be held to account by the law. Which she was. If anything she’s living proof that speeding in 30’s will likely get you motoring convictions. The system works. It’s a kind of logical fallacy to believe someone who ‘makes the law’ must ‘fucking well stick to it’ to be an effective lawmaker. She’s a bit of an idiot in her driving habits. On the other hand she might be a very good (or a really terrible) crime commissioner. The two things can be separated.

[TobyD]

If you make the law you fucking well need to stick to it.

I wonder if any incidences of law breaking by the people who have made them have recently been widely publicised? Where could the commissioner in question have possibly got the idea from?

[Offwidth]

Or you know, be held to account by the law. Which she was. If anything she’s living proof that speeding in 30’s will likely get you motoring convictions. The system works. It’s a kind of logical fallacy to believe someone who ‘makes the law’ must ‘fucking well stick to it’ to be an effective lawmaker. She’s a bit of an idiot in her driving habits. On the other hand she might be a very good (or a really terrible) crime commissioner. The two things can be separated.

I've never heard of anyone in our area getting so many fines in village 30 zones in such a short period, let alone someone in her position. Nearly everyone close to losing their licence is careful (and incentivised by extra insurance costs). She hasn't been fined just for speeding, she has been fined for speeding repeatedly where there are cameras. She is completely taking the piss in areas where a speeding collision with a pedestrian significantly increases the chances of serious injury or fatality. Village cameras are only put up where there have been previous such incidents.

She hasn't been doing well as crime commissioner, and never will be able to, as she constantly faces questions about (and distrust due to) her own crimes (let alone the distractions of the court case). She is a lame duck clinging to the position.

As for should someone who broke the law like she did,  with the timing of her conviction, be able to undertake her role, I think not.... even though it is legal currently (although being imprisoned prevents you standing as does a conviction under representation of the peoples act... and numerous conflicts of interest of a lesser concern).  I think it's about time the Nolan principles in public life are included as clear guidance in those rules.

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/sites/default/files/2021-02/PCC%20Part%201%20-%20Can%20you%20stand%20for%20election.pdf

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-7-principles-of-public-life/the-7-principles-of-public-life--2

[remus]

She’s a bit of an idiot in her driving habits. On the other hand she might be a very good (or a really terrible) crime commissioner. The two things can be separated.

The core of it for me is that I don't believe she can be an effective PCC because I don't believe what she says. As an elected official I think you need the trust of the people who elected you, and hypocrisy seems a quick way to lose that trust.

I think perhaps we are talking at cross purposes a bit, as I do think it's very possible for an elected official to have broken the law and still be good at their job, for example I wouldn't give a shit if my MP smoked a spliff the other day if they're otherwise doing a good job.

[TobyD]

... I do think it's very possible for an elected official to have broken the law and still be good at their job, for example I wouldn't give a shit if my MP smoked a spliff the other day if they're otherwise doing a good job.

But only because it's a law that I'm guessing you disagree with anyway? What if they went fox hunting?


On another subject: the next PM that we'll have to put up with,  if Tugenherts 31 votes last night 6 go to Sunak, and the reminder to Badenoch,  theoretically,  Truss will be out later today.  Wishful thinking,  obviously,  but possible. 

[remus]

But only because it's a law that I'm guessing you disagree with anyway? What if they went fox hunting?

Personally I find fox hunting distasteful so my opinion would be based on that, rather then the legality of it. However if they'd campaigned on anti-drugs laws/banning fox hunting I think that's a very different matter.

[sdm]

On another subject: the next PM that we'll have to put up with,  if Tugenherts 31 votes last night 6 go to Sunak, and the reminder to Badenoch,  theoretically,  Truss will be out later today.  Wishful thinking,  obviously,  but possible. 

I think that's more than wishful thinking.

Tugendhat and Badenoch are from opposite sides of the party. Other than some extreme tactical voting, there is no chance of any votes transferring from Tugendhat to Badenoch.

I expect Tugendhat's votes will get split between Mordaunt and Sunak.

Badenoch next one to fall, with almost all of her support transferring to Truss. Which I think means we'll see Sunak vs Truss in the final two. 

[Offwidth]

... I do think it's very possible for an elected official to have broken the law and still be good at their job, for example I wouldn't give a shit if my MP smoked a spliff the other day if they're otherwise doing a good job.

On another subject: the next PM that we'll have to put up with,  if Tugenherts 31 votes last night 6 go to Sunak, and the reminder to Badenoch,  theoretically,  Truss will be out later today.  Wishful thinking,  obviously,  but possible.

I can't see that happening... Tugendhat's support was from MPs looking to return to older conservative values. Badenoch typifies the new tory populist aggression. I'd expect Tugendhat's support to go to Sunak or Mordaunt. In the next round of  votes Badenoch looks likely to lose and I think that will benefit Truss. In any case we will see soon enough... these really are the days of very hot air.

[Offwidth]

Maybe get more popcorn out for the consequences of the latest government infighting.....

The tory MP and Boris critic Tobias Elwood has just lost the tory whip after failing to return on time from an overseas trip, for the rather pointless no confidence vote (in times of EU travel chaos). He was in Moldova supporting  their cause, given the severe threat to the country from Russia.

Incidentally he was the 'one vote less' that Mordaunt got yesterday, that is being trumpeted by the Fail as a significant decline in support for her.

[Offwidth]

News is coming thick and fast today. Gina Millar on hidden threats in the NI protocol bill:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/19/tories-democracy-northern-ireland-protocol-bill-powers

[TobyD]

Incidentally he was the 'one vote less' that Mordaunt got yesterday, that is being trumpeted by the Fail as a significant decline in support for her.

Most of the Daily Mails readers are in care homes so that's why they can write whatever they like, and it'll be believed as they have no other connection to the outside world. Today their headline was snowflake Britain, and how they thought it wasn't that hot really.