[TobyD]

If the modelled outcomes for greatly increased hospitalisations over a short time period actually happen, then that would be the kind of situation for which opening Nightingale wards in high demand areas was designed for, no? Haven't heard much about them being opened for this wave, since they shut following seemingly not much usage during the first wave. Staffing issues?

They were always going to be a bit pointless,  physical space is rarely the real problem when the media says things about bed shortages,  its always the number of staff to manage the patients  that are the limiting factor.  When there aren't enough staff in normal hospitals,  nightingales are next to useless. 

[Will Hunt]

My wife's hospital has cancelled leave for all staff over Christmas. Not sure who's going to be staffing these Nightingale facilities when there's fuck all people to run the normal hospitals.

[Adam Lincoln]

If the modelled outcomes for greatly increased hospitalisations over a short time period actually happen, then that would be the kind of situation for which opening Nightingale wards in high demand areas was designed for, no? Haven't heard much about them being opened for this wave, since they shut following seemingly not much usage during the first wave. Staffing issues?

Well April it is then...    Why do covid waves have to coincide with periods where it's horrible to be in the UK! 

Supposed to be heading to the Pyrenees on Dec 27th for some ski-touring.. Just waiting now for Spain to follow France's lead.

Do you think that will be the case or do you think its just France giving us the big f you over fishing rights and general brexit shit show/hating the uk on a whole?

Ive had to change a ferry on tuesday due to arrive in France, to a direct ferry to spain. At a much greater expense.

[ali k]

Tories lose North Shropshire - one of the safest seats they had. There is some justice in the world.

[TobyD]

Tories lose North Shropshire - one of the safest seats they had. There is some justice in the world.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-59687316

The beginning of the end for Johnson? A Con MP just said that he's got to go now on R4.

[petejh]

Supposed to be heading to the Pyrenees on Dec 27th for some ski-touring.. Just waiting now for Spain to follow France's lead.

Do you think that will be the case or do you think its just France giving us the big f you over fishing rights and general brexit shit show/hating the uk on a whole?

Ive had to change a ferry on tuesday due to arrive in France, to a direct ferry to spain. At a much greater expense.

In a similar boat here (haha). Was going to go rosslare-cherborg and drive down. Now looking at the much pricier Bilbao option but wondering if further travel restrictions in the short term are inevitable.

Dunno about France’s rationale but Macron has proven to be a chronic twat.

[Adam Lincoln]

Supposed to be heading to the Pyrenees on Dec 27th for some ski-touring.. Just waiting now for Spain to follow France's lead.

Do you think that will be the case or do you think its just France giving us the big f you over fishing rights and general brexit shit show/hating the uk on a whole?

Ive had to change a ferry on tuesday due to arrive in France, to a direct ferry to spain. At a much greater expense.

In a similar boat here (haha). Was going to go rosslare-cherborg and drive down. Now looking at the much pricier Bilbao option but wondering if further travel restrictions in the short term are inevitable.

Dunno about France’s rationale but Macron has proven to be a chronic twat.

Sounds like its all booked up now anyway. Though its Santander you need assuming you are going from Portsmouth. Unless you are still planning on going from Ireland. How much is it out of interest?

Every morning between now and 28th ill wake up and flick sky news on and just hope its not turned to rat shit with Spain too.

[petejh]

Yeah hard to get bookings, I haven't managed to. Loads of people probably changing plans today from France to Spain. Might end up flying, or end up ski-touring in Scotland instead!

Macron's made no secret of his desire for policies that attempt to 'punish' the UK for brexit, and this is just another example. Banning UK travellers while keeping schengen area borders open seems to make little sense from a covid transmission pov.

[Paul B]

Macron's made no secret of his desire for policies that attempt to 'punish' the UK for brexit, and this is just another example. Banning UK travellers while keeping schengen area borders open seems to make little sense from a covid transmission pov.

The last one of these I saw had linguists up in arms saying the translation used by the British media was false?

EDIT: https://www.thearticle.com/lost-in-translation-the-castex-letter-fish-wars-and-brexit

[petejh]

You say potato I say potato.

''Il paraît donc nécessaire que l’Union européenne montre sa totale détermination à obtenir le plein respect de l’accord par le Royaume-Uni et fasse valoir ses droits en utilisant les leviers à sa disposition de manière ferme, unie et proportionnée. Il est indispensable de montrer clairement aux opinions publiques européennes que le respect des engagements souscrits n’est pas négociable et qu’il y a davantage de dommages à quitter l’Union qu’à y demeurer.''


https://fullfact.org/europe/french-pm-eu-president-punishment-letter/


If it looks, walks and quacks like a duck -  it's a duck. Unless it's in your interests for it to be a goose then, for you, it's a goose.

[abarro81]

Glad you're now on board with the fact that since Brexit looks, walks and quacks like a shit idea it was indeed a shit idea 

[petejh]

I see the potato showed up. 

[Nigel]

Linked these graphs previously, from modelling Gov is using. UKHSA have just confirmed their assessment that Omicron's immune evasion ability (against 2 dose vaccine evasion and previous infection) is high, with high confidence.

So if UKHSA are right, and the model is OK - "High Immune Escape" - we're in the two red graphs on the right hand side. The dotted line is the peak level of hospitalisations from the last winter wave in January.

[mrjonathanr]

You say potato I say potato.

''Il paraît donc nécessaire que l’Union européenne montre sa totale détermination à obtenir le plein respect de l’accord par le Royaume-Uni et fasse valoir ses droits en utilisant les leviers à sa disposition de manière ferme, unie et proportionnée. Il est indispensable de montrer clairement aux opinions publiques européennes que le respect des engagements souscrits n’est pas négociable et qu’il y a davantage de dommages à quitter l’Union qu’à y demeurer.''

This is what that text says:

“It seems necessary, therefore, for the EU to show its total determination to obtain the full respect of the UK for the agreement and assert its rights using the levers at its disposition in a firm, united and proportionate way. It is essential to show clearly to the European public that respect for written undertakings is non-negotiable and there are more downsides to leaving the EU than remaining in it.“


I’m a bit late to the party here and not minded to trawl through posts to understand more, but it’s an uncontentious statement of the bleeding obvious, non?

Edit. I have just clicked your full fact link Pete and I can see what the problem is. Specifically, it’s been poorly translated by people who clearly are either not that good at French, or wilfully transliterating ‘Dommages’ as ‘damages’. In some contexts that would be correct, here ‘downsides’ is a more appropriate translation.

[petejh]

This is what the text says:

''It would thus appear necessary that the EU shows its absolute determination to obtain the UK’s full compliance with the agreement and also asserts its rights through recourse to all means at its disposal in a firm, unified and proportional manner. It is indispensable to show clearly to European public opinion that the respect of commitments entered into is not negotiable and it is as damaging to leave the Union as it is to stay in it.''


You say potato I say potato. People see what they want to see.

The letter does ask the EU to demonstrate Britain has been disadvantaged by leaving the EU.

The key line appears to be the final sentence of the paragraph shown above, in which the French PM says it is essential to show the European public that there are more “dommages” to leaving the Union than to remaining in it.

There’s some debate over how best to translate “dommages”. We spoke to three French speakers—a researcher, a journalist and an academic—who all said they believe “dommages” is most accurately translated as “drawbacks” or “disadvantages” rather than “damages”. However Dr Edward Arnold, Professor of French at Trinity College Dublin, did translate “dommages” as “damaging” in a translation produced for Irish fact checkers thejournal.ie.

[mrjonathanr]

Posts crossed!
No, your translation ^^ isn’t that good.
Interesting that 3 fact checkers all agree with me.

[mrjonathanr]

It’s this bit (the earlier section is a fair translation):

qu’il y a / davantage de / dommages / à quitter / l’Union / qu’à { y }demeurer.''

This translates, chunk for chunk, as:
‘that there are / more / ‘dommages’ / to leaving / the EU / than to remain / there.’

‘As damaging to leave as to remain ‘ - it’s just nonsense, the French text does not say that, as you can see. How to render ‘dommages’? Similar words do not have a perfectly overlapping range of meaning with their main equivalents in other languages, a baboon could mechanically translate Shakespeare into Spanish if they did. That is why translation requires some skill.

Here, the tone and context mean dommages should be expressed as ‘downsides’ or ‘disadvantages’.

Although bad translation annoys me, in respect of the uproar about the misconstruing this as some implied punishment- who cares 

The French think we should honour the legal contracts we sign and it’s politically important to them EU publics see leavers can’t just have their cake and eat it.

In other news, bears defecate in the woods.

[petejh]

But one fact checker, equally qualified (professor of French at Trinity), doesn't agree with you. Is their view invalid then in your mind because your bias doesn't align?

Don't answer, it isn't important. You're correct and you're incorrect, depending who you ask.

[mrjonathanr]

Pete, you don’t half talk some nonsense 

[petejh]

Err, really? You're claiming the translation I posted is wrong. I didn't make that translation, it was the translation made by a professor of French for an Irish fact-checking site. How is that nonsense?

[seankenny]

The continuing existence of the Le Touquet agreement is surely a mark against the revenge theory?

One doesn’t need to invoke a Brexity sense of victimisation to explain French behaviour: it is not surprising that a centrist politician in an election year, facing a challenge from the far right might, when a neighbouring country has high levels of a potentially dangerous disease, be keen on immediately shutting the borders.

[petejh]

One doesn't need to have a sense of victimisation to correctly identify behaviour designed to 'punish'. One more straw man bayoneted, well done private Sean.

[seankenny]

My comment was - in my head at least - much more directed at Adam’s original post.

I should hasten you add, in case it wasn’t clear, that I think it’s a fairly stupid policy and I really feel for people who’ve had their trips ruined.

[mrjonathanr]

Err, really? You're claiming the translation I posted is wrong. I didn't make that translation, it was the translation made by a professor of French for an Irish fact-checking site. How is that nonsense?

Because the translation is wrong.

Talk about something else, this is dull now.

[petejh]

But the translation isn't wrong. There *is* no perfect translation - that's the point of the articles linked, about the different translations that have been offered up. You can think one translation is wrong and one correct, but that's just your opinion and your opinion carries no special weight as far as I'm aware.