[petejh]

Party politics aside (I really don't care how good or bad anyone looks), listening to the testimony I quite like Cummings's attitude. He's obviously one of life's do'ers who just wants to make things happen and he obviously has a hatred of - what he considers - unnecessary rules and restrictive bureaucracy. He appears to see things in a fairly black/white way, almost the antithesis of the way politics works. Probably totally unsuited to a life in politics! I recognise his outlook. His descriptions of trying to get things done through the sludge of shambolic government and civil service organisations with few people prepared to take responsibility and take the lead will be familiar with anyone who's ever worked in any large organisation. The descriptions of trying to get actions fast-balled are the same old stories you can read about through history in various narratives of civil or military organisations in highly pressured situations requiring action (commandeering aircraft, 'bulldozing' through legalities surrounding the vaccine etc.). It's often the people who have the strength of character to ignore a failing system who make things happen. The lead of the vaccine group, former head of the SAS asked to set up manufacturing supply etc. Lions led by donkeys nicely sums up. Good point he made about how fortunate we were that covid didn't hit back in autumn with the state of the paralysed government during the brexit debates; as it was they were paralysed enough anyway.. I hope the dog is OK.

[spidermonkey09]

Yeah, I think it is abundantly clear he is a snake but in certain roles he could be very effective. The plausibility of his testimony is being damaged for me because he is going out of his way to avoid criticising Sunak when seemingly everybody else is fair game. I think we know enough about Sunak's views to know that he was equally culpable and its revealing that DC is avoiding it.

[teestub]

A good little thread around what Cummings' idea of cutting through red tape and getting the job done looked like

https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/1397468485597515776

It's amazing what he's come up with after having months to think about it, and where to point the fingers (and also where not to point the fingers as SM said). Thought he could have tired harder on his Co. Durham bit, that was still a bit lacking. If it was a security issue all along surely that would have been easier to say at the time, and he didn't manage to improve his eye test drive story at all!

Impossible to prove if large parts of it are any where near the truth, or complete fabrication, as what he was saying often seemed to rely on off the record meetings or things that weren't recorded in any official capacity, how convenient.

[tomtom]

The below quote is possibly why it will likely come to nothing to many people (from a fairly normal friend on FB)

Why is everybody fretting about Dominic Cummings now?  Nobody believed him when he sat in a garden and told us about his essential trip to Durham during the first lockdown, whilst we cancelled our weddings, our holidays and closed our businesses.
We didn’t believe in him 20 mins after the Brexit result was called and we were told that the £350m we were told would be saved a week wouldn’t, in fact, be going to the NHS. Bus?  What bus? 
But now he’s being reported as fact. They’re all liars. All of them. The only difference is that he’ll hide behind the others and only when dragged out of the dark will look you in the eye and lie to your face. Better? Or worse?

[seankenny]

I think that for a lot of British people, raised to believe they live in one of the best governed and fairest countries on earth, the fact that a series of avoidable errors killed 30 or 40 *thousand* people is too much to contemplate.

[andy popp]

He's obviously one of life's do'ers who just wants to make things happen

Is he? That's the rhetoric he loves to project, the iconoclastic outsider - but what has it ever amounted to? What has he been very effective at (I'll give him that he was campaign director for Vote Leave, but we can hardly say he alone made Brexit happen)? He has been very successful at riding the inside track for a long time now, giving him far more opportunity to make things happen than any of us. If bureaucracy is such a problem has he put really serious work into reforming the civil service? I see mostly conniving and feuds. Ultimate emperor's new clothes.

So, yes, he loves the image of the outsider thwarted by the system when he's actually an integral part of the system and an integral part of the catastrophic response of the UK government last year.

[battery]

I think that for a lot of British people, raised to believe they live in one of the best governed and fairest countries on earth, the fact that a series of avoidable errors killed 30 or 40 *thousand* people is too much to contemplate.

I think it is a very small section of society that was raised this way - maybe the ruling white elite and that's it. The working classes going through the miners strikes in the 80s, the overt racism of the sus laws, repatriation attempts, Hillsborough... They left a large proportion of society under no illusions about whose side the government was on and what lengths they would go to to get what they want.

[galpinos]

Cummings talks a good game and is trying to sound contrite but his inabiltiy to apologise for or acknowledge specific incidents is weird. He appears to be able to apologise in the abstract but not for a specific thing. His whole schtick seems to be he's saying sorry for being SO right but not managing to convince the government how right he was so they made bad decisions. Add that to the fact he's "gone after" Johnson and Hancock but left the rest of them squeaky clean it undermines a lot of what he says.

[galpinos]

Party politics aside (I really don't care how good or bad anyone looks), listening to the testimony I quite like Cummings's attitude. He's obviously one of life's do'ers who just wants to make things happen and he obviously has a hatred of - what he considers - unnecessary rules and restrictive bureaucracy. He appears to see things in a fairly black/white way, almost the antithesis of the way politics works.

Hmmm, really? If you want a do-er, it's Gove imho. Like him or not, when he decides to implement policy and change, it happens. Look at education and justice (especially justice, he was only in post 12 months). What has Cummings actually implemented? He's seems more like an "ideas guy" and for someone who has been in the government inner circle since 2007 at least what has he done? Been a part of Brexit?

[Wellsy]

Cummings as a person aside, I think he was telling the truth about what happened and the truth is deeply, deeply horrifying. Until the middle of march the plan was that we should let 400,000 people die in the next six months. Extraordinary.

[Yossarian]

Party politics aside (I really don't care how good or bad anyone looks), listening to the testimony I quite like Cummings's attitude. He's obviously one of life's do'ers who just wants to make things happen and he obviously has a hatred of - what he considers - unnecessary rules and restrictive bureaucracy. He appears to see things in a fairly black/white way, almost the antithesis of the way politics works.

Hmmm, really? If you want a do-er, it's Gove imho. Like him or not, when he decides to implement policy and change, it happens. Look at education and justice (especially justice, he was only in post 12 months). What has Cummings actually implemented? He's seems more like an "ideas guy" and for someone who has been in the government inner circle since 2007 at least what has he done? Been a part of Brexit?

But wasn’t Cummings Gove’s spad at education? There were some tweets by Sam Freedman (or maybe it was an article in last weekends papers) which were quite illuminating about Cummings’ approach.

[tomtom]

I thought one TV journalists almost throw away view on Cummings testimony was quite important. They said that Cummings testimony made much of #10’s narrative about what happened make sense. In other words it fitted what we were told by the government better than the governments feeble explanation.

This was going on even on Monday - with the ridiculous situation around the local lockdowns. Ministers trying to bluff out some bullshit instead of just saying it was a cock up.

[TobyD]

Party politics aside (I really don't care how good or bad anyone looks), listening to the testimony I quite like Cummings's attitude. He's obviously one of life's do'ers who just wants to make things happen and he obviously has a hatred of - what he considers - unnecessary rules and restrictive bureaucracy. He appears to see things in a fairly black/white way, almost the antithesis of the way politics works.

Hmmm, really? If you want a do-er, it's Gove imho. Like him or not, when he decides to implement policy and change, it happens. Look at education and justice (especially justice, he was only in post 12 months). What has Cummings actually implemented? He's seems more like an "ideas guy" and for someone who has been in the government inner circle since 2007 at least what has he done? Been a part of Brexit?

Hes very good at winning elections. Hes got rid of 2 Conservative leaders in the past (IDS and Cameron). I think that Cummings is far less intelligent than he thinks he is, and hes probably a sociopath and very poor himself at government. 
What's weird is that I'd say the same about Johnson: good at elections,  awful at government,  has few if any friends and a serial liar.
If he has actual proof of his claims,  Johnson is screwed, if not all of it will be brushed aside by the whole bunch of fucking incompetent self serving pompous twats in a week. 

Cummings' claim that has the most resonance for me is that there is something broken about a system that gives the electorate a choice of Corbyn or Johnson in a general election. 

[Offwidth]

I think that for a lot of British people, raised to believe they live in one of the best governed and fairest countries on earth, the fact that a series of avoidable errors killed 30 or 40 *thousand* people is too much to contemplate.

I'm not so sure. The populist politics game is to get groups of people upset with other groups of people instead of focussing on the c*nts in charge. The political classes are obsessed with the soap opera but too many people know unnecessary death, suffering and economic damage from this government's incompetent covid response.

This is a recent positive example of what can happen if you look at public policy with the public:

https://fabians.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Going-with-the-grain-Fabian-Society-lowres.pdf
 

[Will Hunt]

Bring back General Franco, I say. #OneOfLifesDoers

[TobyD]

I think that for a lot of British people, raised to believe they live in one of the best governed and fairest countries on earth, the fact that a series of avoidable errors killed 30 or 40 *thousand* people is too much to contemplate.

I'm not so sure. The populist politics game is to get groups of people upset with other groups of people instead of focussing on the c*nts in charge. The political classes are obsessed with the soap opera but too many people know unnecessary death, suffering and economic damage from this government's incompetent covid response.

This is a recent positive example of what can happen if you look at public policy with the public:

https://fabians.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Going-with-the-grain-Fabian-Society-lowres.pdf

I can't see anything positive in this debacle, unfortunately.  I really don't like Cummings or respect him but he gives voice to a lot of self evident truths.
The most important is that the PM is a lazy, chaotic incompetent individual obsessed by his own media image. His administration is poorly selected,  also incompetent and between them, they've facilitated the deaths of thousands of people. 
But the depressing fact is that they'll all get off Scot free, and retire to corporate sinecures and live in luxury, penning crap op eds for the Telegraph to try to tear up their political successors.

I didn't need Dominic Cummings to tell me that, but its satisfying to see it splashed all over the place for a day or two. 

[Offwidth]

I just agree with what you say but believe in the good in most ordinary people. The two positions are not contradictory.

[petejh]

Bring back General Franco, I say. #OneOfLifesDoers

General? Wow. He's done well for himself since his bold sandstone headpointing days.  #Oneoflifesdeckers

[mrjonathanr]

But wasn’t Cummings Gove’s spad at education?

He caused untold harm at DfE. The pseudo-privatisation, fragmentation, loss of oversight and accountability that is the hugely expanded academisation programme was their legacy. As is the billions squandered in free schools.

He’s just angling for a return to a position of power. That does not make his testimony invalid, but it should be treated with great care. I don’t think he is doing this because he believes the public deserves better, but because he thinks he does.

[SA Chris]

I find the whole thing a bit strange. Part of me is pleased that he's sticking one to the present government and airing all their dirty laundry, but at the same time it feel like he's in full confession mode in the hope of atonement and redemption, which all feels a bit "methinks the lady doth protest" and doesn't quite ring true.

[Wellsy]

It seems highly unlikely that he was lying in that testimony. 7 hours of it, with a lot of detail, names dates etc, and a lot of stuff that an inquiry will extremely easily confirm or deny. I think he is doing image rehab, and that he is in many ways an unpleasant person... but I think he was telling the truth in that testimony.

[SA Chris]

I don't think he's lying, just "presenting a creatively selected suite of facts" to show himself in the best possible light and damn others.

[galpinos]

I don't think he's lying, just "presenting a creatively selected suite of facts" to show himself in the best possible light and damn others.

Agreed. He was being selectively candid.

[TobyD]

I don't think he's lying, just "presenting a creatively selected suite of facts" to show himself in the best possible light and damn others.

Agreed. He was being selectively candid.

To be honest, I still think he's a rather unpleasant character, but I don't blame him for doing this; if anyone had been part of a government that had dealt with the pandemic as they did, I think they would want to distance themselves from it as much as possible! We were the second best country in the world after the USA for pandemic preparation before 2020. It's sobering where we ended up.


On another note, Johnson meeting Orban is bloody disgraceful. He is essentially a racist dictator. Maybe he's having a tea party with Putin, Xi Jin Ping and Lukashenko next week? (Apologies for spelling btw)

[James Malloch]

Boris gets £200k renovation paid by a doner and it’s all fine.

Hancock doesn’t declare a family business which gets an NHS contract and breaches ministerial code, also okay…