Yeah I didn't vote Labour locally, I voted Green. The Sheffield Labour Council is pretty rubbish but I'd vote Labour nationally.
Quote from: Wellsy on May 07, 2021, 11:57:09 amYeah I didn't vote Labour locally, I voted Green. The Sheffield Labour Council is pretty rubbish but I'd vote Labour nationally.That's funny, that was exactly what I thought, and did. Sheffield could do with more Green councillors.
Quote from: TobyD on May 07, 2021, 09:15:10 amI agree, I heard more than one focus group on a political podcast, with several members who thought that Corbyn was still in charge of the party. You can't underestimate the level of apathy among a lot of people. Jesus christ! On a similar note, I read recently that among a SNP voting focus group, all of whom were cast iron SNP supporters, a significant proportion expressed outrage that Sturgeon might call for a referendum soon. One does wonder how they arrived at the decision to vote SNP in the first place. I'll see if I can find the link.
I agree, I heard more than one focus group on a political podcast, with several members who thought that Corbyn was still in charge of the party. You can't underestimate the level of apathy among a lot of people.
There was quite an astute analysis I read on Twitter first thing this morning. That Labour's problem is that across a lot of the remainy Home Counties people are more economically right wing that they are socially liberal, whereas in the midlands and the north many people are more socially conservative than they are economically left wing.
. I would suggest that a clear vision of what they are actually intending to do for the people needs to be consistently pounded out, particularly popular socialist policies that will directly benefit us. I suspect instead we will have a further lurch to the right and a continuation of the bland characterless focus group informed politics we have seen up to now.
Not ignoring anything - just not sure what he did wrong. Manchester, Salford - easier to know your audience and how to sell yourself to them. Labour nationally struggles with that. Perhaps it doesn’t know it’s audience any more - or (more likely) they’re trying to appeal to too many peopleat once. Part of this is also media. Local media here are all over Burnham - can’t even name a Tory counterpart… nationally we all know the Tory/Labour media is not that way…
I don’t think Starmer is inept at all. He has a bit of the Miliband robotic presentation which he could do with working on. But I think he’s done as well as anyone given the circumstances. And bearing in mind he’s up against a shape shifting force of personality still riding a Brexit wave who’s also borrowed a vast amount of money, paid loads of people’s wages for months, and taken the credit for vaccinating the whole nation.I’d be up for some radical policies - I agree with Brutus on that. But if you can’t see that Burnham comes straight from the Blair mould - hardworking / listening / moderate - rather than reactionary / we know better than you then I give up. Burnham couldn’t work with Corbyn. And he opposed Miliband’s mansion tax because he knew it smacked of the politics of envy.
TD you're ignoring the results and the absolute ineptitude of Starmer and his advisors. How do you explain it?
Burnham is a Blairite but when he had the opportunity to oppose the government firmly, he did so and he is rewarded with the people of Manchester getting behind him. Contrast this with Sadiq Khan's failure to oppose and his consequently falling majority against a really bad Conservative candidate.People want something tangible that will make their lives better,
The answers lie in working out what they stand for and building the coalition to stand with. It is a big problem
Quote from: BrutusTheBear on May 09, 2021, 09:41:50 amTD you're ignoring the results and the absolute ineptitude of Starmer and his advisors. How do you explain it?Hartlepool, totemic as it may be, was always going to lean to Brexit supporting parties. Now, that’s just the Tories. Starmer is good forensically, but in the role of communicator and salesman is far from satisfactory. ...The answers lie in working out what they stand for and building the coalition to stand with. It is a big problem.
Fight to represent the interests and concerns of local people
Even if you think Blair did not represent Labour, don't you think that was part of his success?I don't think it's contraversial to say that Boris Johnson doesn't represent the traditional Conservative party. Theresa May, on the other hand is very much a traditional Conservative and nearly lost them the government. The party realised that and ruthlessly went about picking a winner.
QuoteEven if you think Blair did not represent Labour, don't you think that was part of his success?I don't think it's contraversial to say that Boris Johnson doesn't represent the traditional Conservative party. Theresa May, on the other hand is very much a traditional Conservative and nearly lost them the government. The party realised that and ruthlessly went about picking a winner.Blair and his team successfully got into bed with Murdoch and big business, he was ruthless and won the backing of the power brokers. The whole 'there's no point in voting their all the bloody same' resulted from this. Keir and his team have tried to do the same but the power brokers aren't interested.. Financially speaking, with a greatly reduced membership and the failure to attract big business money Labour is struggling. I think people see straight through this kind of politician and the electoral success of Blair and co. can't be repeated... the damage has been done.