[tomtom]

Ace paper!! Yes. It’s about as both barrels as academia gets...

[TobyD]

... I am worried I am turning into one of these conspiracy nuts where I assume everything that comes out of government is a lie or has an ulterior motive but it all seems too convenient for me.   

I'm in on this conspiracy as well. He gets to avoid the Brexit shitshow, embarrassing aftermath of two aides leaving, and PMQs. He can send out the cabinet nobodys to announce all the poorly though through new policies and take the flack for it. Then he can bounce back and announce that lockdown is over, feel good about it, and half the country can return to passing COVID around in Wetherspoons.

[seankenny]

Right now, we literally can't call this one way or the other. He's announced he's full of beans and ready to go, so surely he can do some kind of remote PMQs - and we should all be writing to our MPs demanding this, particularly if we live in Tory areas.

Conspiracy thinking seems to me to be endemic in our society and it's terrible. Until we can prove otherwise (missing any sort of PMQ would be a good indicator) then I think we should be responsible and not give into the temptation of conspiracy thinking.

[TobyD]

Conspiracy thinking seems to me to be endemic in our society and it's terrible. Until we can prove otherwise (missing any sort of PMQ would be a good indicator) then I think we should be responsible and not give into the temptation of conspiracy thinking.

I totally agree really, I was mostly being ironic (as Trump would say)  There's a report in the papers today about a group of antivax healthcare and care workers, including a Sheffield GP. There are a really concerning number of people in the NHS who believe loads of shit like that.

[TobyD]

Looks like Corbyn is still a Labour party member but won't have the whip restored; I wonder if he'd still stand in the next election if he remained outside the party.
I believe he's very popular in his constituency so I imagine he'd retain his seat. I imagine Starmer would rather that the NEC had chucked him out, and frankly I think it'd have been better for the party if they had, but this seems like a reasonable compromise in the circumstances, if an unsatisfactory one for many.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

I hope this is the best thread for this one.

Interesting use of the word decree"decided" by Boris.

https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-rules-priti-patel-did-not-breach-ministerial-code-over-bullying-allegations-12136986

[ali k]

My partner suffered workplace bullying by her boss in her previous employment and was eventually forced to leave due to it becoming unbearable so this is particularly close to the bone.

I’m sure the same “mitigating circumstances” could be used by anyone in a position of power to excuse their actions in the name of getting results. “I was under pressure so I shouted, swore and created a general climate of fear among my staff to get what I wanted”. It’s fucking unacceptable. Have written to my MP but I’m not expecting much.

[mrjonathanr]

One rule for us, another one for her I think.

Marina Hyde in the Graun made the point that you may not get very far using ‘I am sorry, it wasn’t a deliberate mistake’ as an excuse when dealing with government departments.

Benefits sanctions and asylum application refusals probably won’t bend to Patel’s excuse.

[teestub]

Seems like a real missed opportunity to prove that you've moved on post Classic Dom.

Was also disheartening to see Johnson's new press sec attempting to go for some serious spin too.

[mrjonathanr]

Seems like a real missed opportunity to prove that you've moved on

He can’t really move on from himself though, can he! What’s the common denominator in this tsunami of incompetence, preposterous promises and corruption?

[tomtom]

It’s exactly the sort of behaviour we’d expect from Trump.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Seems like a real missed opportunity to prove that you've moved on

He can’t really move on from himself though, can he! What’s the common denominator in this tsunami of incompetence, preposterous promises and corruption?

His parliamentary code.. ?

[teestub]

He can’t really move on from himself though, can he!

Fair point! I’d like to think there were other advisers screaming at him to do the right thing.

It made me shudder to think of him as the ‘final arbiter of a code’!

[Will Hunt]

I completely agree that she ought to be sanctioned. However, interesting to see the difference between the attitude to her and, say, Bercow. Not necessarily on here but certainly there was a lot of looking at ones shoes when the Bercow allegations came out.

[teestub]

From a quick google it would appear that there wasn't ever a formal investigation into the claims against Bercow, potentially because they were historical accusations, although this isn't clear.

[Offwidth]

I completely agree that she ought to be sanctioned. However, interesting to see the difference between the attitude to her and, say, Bercow. Not necessarily on here but certainly there was a lot of looking at ones shoes when the Bercow allegations came out.

The Bercow accusations always had more than a whiff about them. He had vengeful political enemies in government and on the tory backbenches since 2008, given the way he managed his work as Speaker. He had  civil service enemies in his department given the sweeping modernising process changes he introduced to the office, which were strongly opposed by some of his accusers. The idea he orchestrated an establishment cover up seemed very unlikely to me. How, when both sides of the establishment seemed against him? However, at a minimum there were process failures that he must take some blame for.

The contrast to the Patel situation is enormous. Even now she appears on TV and makes a ludicrous apology for inadvertent bullying which includes swearing in peoples faces. The PM intervened, delayed by months and broke tradition in not sacking her (given the findings). She has appalling form on ignoring ministerial rules (some experts think the secret meeting with Israeli officials as a minister was so serious she should not have been allowed to continue to be an MP).  After Boris backs her, the PMs advisor in this important watchdog role resigns. Boris has yet to answer numerous questions on the matter.

[tomtom]

Both are wrong. Because Bercow* wasn’t ‘caught’ (investigated etc) and sanctioned does not mean Patel should not!

*if he did etc../allegedly etc...

The bigger stink here is Johnson. He could have simply decided not to act on the investigation (that he could have - lots of waffle about water under the bridge - she’s taken training etx..) - but instead he decided to contradict / over-rule the findings - this placing the civil servant in charge in an untenable position. So it’s now his problem (he’s owned it) instead of Patel.

God knows what she must have on him....

[Will Hunt]

I'm in complete agreement that Patel should be sanctioned and that Johnson has failed massively by dismissing the findings.
There was a shortfall in how the Bercow allegations were dealt with (as the Speaker is he subject to different rules?). My point is that none of us really made much noise about that at the time, I suspect because Bercow was doing quite a good job at the time of holding the government to account over Brexit. Offwidth's claims of the allegations having a political whiff about them smacks of the sort of attitude that can lead to a culture of victims' claims being dismissed unfairly or not taken seriously. The allegations should have been investigated properly and if they didn't stand up to scrutiny then that would have been that.

[Offwidth]

The accusers make the claims about Bercow, not me, as nothing was proven and there was no establishment backing him, just a rag tag coalition of people who believed in Parliament. Others in Parliament (who were a lot more trustworthy than his ERG enemies, right wing commentators and civil service ceremonial dinosaurs) knew the situation and defended him; I simply don't believe they would have done so if bullying was clear. He was never above the rules but gaps in the rules were exposed.

Bercow was shaking up the establishment at long odds; Patel is the establishment backed by a huge majority and was excused of clear abuses by the PM under extraordinary circumstances.

[teestub]

There was a shortfall in how the Bercow allegations were dealt with (as the Speaker is he subject to different rules?). My point is that none of us really made much noise about that at the time, I suspect because Bercow was doing quite a good job at the time of holding the government to account over Brexit.

All hypothetical etc. but I’d like to think there would have been a similar amount of noise if Bercow had been investigated, found to have broken the Ministerial code and then been excused by May.

It’s a shame there wasn’t an investigation that could have concluded one way or another.

[Offwidth]

I thought there might still be an investigation after Lord Lisvane made a formal complaint in January this year (7 years after the problems, and as one of the known opponents of the Bercow reforms). I don't know what has happened after that but obviously Boris and the cabinet were sympathetic to it proceeding.  The whole thing looks like a political stitch up.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-51220144

From the BBC article on Lisvane:

The prime minister's spokesman added: "There can be no place for bullying or abuse in Westminster or any workplace, and it is important that the parliamentary leadership responds fully and promptly to any concerns which are raised."

[ali k]

interesting to see the difference between the attitude to her and, say, Bercow.

This is the same whataboutery that’s being played out in Tory circles to defend her. As well as mutterings about this being some kind of witch hunt involving a bit of sexism and racism to boot.

I suspect we weren’t talking about it because there hadn’t been payoffs to Bercow’s staff or people resigning and bringing legal cases against him or a Cabinet Office enquiry into his behaviour, which was then ignored by the PM at the time.

I’m not having a go at you Will, or defending Bercow, but to me there are clear differences.

[tomtom]

Anyway - as ever the cover up is probably worse than the original crime... more dripping out about Boris trying to alter / influence the report before it came out.

https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-tried-to-water-down-priti-patel-bullying-report-say-whitehall-sources-12137960

What does Priti have over him!!

[TobyD]

Anyway - as ever the cover up is probably worse than the original crime... more dripping out about Boris trying to alter / influence the report before it came out.

https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-tried-to-water-down-priti-patel-bullying-report-say-whitehall-sources-12137960

What does Priti have over him!!

Perhaps the next time she tries to deport some asylum seekers,  they'll claim that they didn't mean to somehow arrive in the UK,  and they're awfully sorry that she's annoyed about it, but they're going to just carry on doing exactly as they please. Presumably,  that'll be ok with her?

Any political doubt that some people may cast on her behaviour should surely be seen in the context of her having organised meetings with Israeli government officials while on holiday,  and being sacked for it.

How can anyone keep a job they've breached the professional code of twice? A policeman was subjected to a disciplinary hearing and will almost certainly be fired earlier this week for stealing some doughnuts once. It really is one rule for them... isn't it. 

[lagerstarfish]

I am sorry that my behaviour in the past has upset people. I acknowledge that I am direct and have at times been a bit of a dick.

https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,3291.0.html

But, obviously, by declaring this I am now thoroughly fit to govern