[tomtom]

And that’s exactly what sky News have said in their analysis.

[TobyD]

What's more concerning is that the committee hasn't released the Russia report. I doubt that it's as damning as some hope, but it may be embarrassing for the government

So a full 15 months after this report was concluded and following the farcical attempts to improperly install Cummings’ stooge as committee chair, obviously it’s just pure coincidence that on the same day as it’s announced the report will be published the govt screams “Well they did it to other people too you know. Look - Russian meddling everywhere”.

I think that describing Chris Grayling as Cummings stooge is talking him up a bit too much to be honest. He's a known incompetent, even to seemingly all of his own party, his only recommendation is brainless loyalty to whoever is currently his master; much like a particularly stupid and greedy Labrador being loyal to whoever feeds him.

[TobyD]

Conservative politicians talk about Johnson with a venom few socialists can match. It’s not that he’s a criminal like Putin, they say. He doesn’t have the balls to be truly evil. Rather, he is a pathetically insecure narcissist who turns on you if you don’t feed his craving for applause. “He’s an abject, hectoring, incompetent show-off,” said one. “If you don’t love him or can’t fake a love for him, he will go for you.” from Nick Cohen's article today,  on expelling MPs who displease him.  I'd certainly agree. Sadly I think hes in a stronger position than many who dislike him would like. 

[TobyD]

Keir Starmer has made a generally well regarded start as opposition leader,  and already increased labour party support in the general population, if polls are to be believed.  Given that Corbyn rather stupidly defamed John Ware and the whistleblowers again immediately after the court hearing,  should Starmer remove the whip from him?

[ali k]

Given that Corbyn rather stupidly defamed John Ware and the whistleblowers again immediately after the court hearing, should Starmer remove the whip from him?

I keep forgetting Corbyn is still an MP. Given that it's largely gone unnoticed by most of the public the sensible thing for Starmer would be to wait until Corbyn says something even more stupid and then take very decisive action a la Long Bailey which will get a decent amount of coverage and draw an even thicker line between them. A slightly cynical way of looking at it maybe but politically would probably serve him better?

[TobyD]

I keep forgetting Corbyn is still an MP. Given that it's largely gone unnoticed by most of the public the sensible thing for Starmer would be to wait until Corbyn says something even more stupid and then take very decisive action a la Long Bailey which will get a decent amount of coverage and draw an even thicker line between them. A slightly cynical way of looking at it maybe but politically would probably serve him better?

A reasonable idea I think. Momentum et al will get all hot and bothered either way. The negative side is that by doing nothing now, the labour party may be involved in the ensuing legal action rather than it just being against Corbyn.

[sdm]

I keep forgetting Corbyn is still an MP.

With Corbyn back out of the public eye, and with momentum neutered for now, the best thing politically might be to just leave him there and ignore him.

It was different with Long-Bailey because she was still in a position of power.

Kicking him out might galvanise momentum for another power struggle.

[seankenny]

Wait till the EHRC report and kick him out of Labour for bringing the party into disrepute. Of course lots of members would leave too, but if subscriptions had to rise because of it, I’m sure for many left that would be a price worth paying.

[TobyD]

Well Corbyn seemingly wasn't being enough of a PITA, so now Len McCluskey is doing his best to claw Labour back to total unelectability. He's the best asset the Conservative party have got.

[Offwidth]

Thanks for highlighting this, I'd missed his interview with the Observer.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/aug/01/len-mccluskey-labour-should-not-be-taking-unites-money-for-granted

I agree McCluskey is often a gift for the tories but not everything from the left of Labour is automatically wrong. There have been rumblings about the independence of the EHRC but not much in the mainstream media.

https://www.newsweek.com/equalities-human-rights-commission-ehrc-pavita-cooper-race-racism-equality-1513338

[mrjonathanr]

Imagine a world without him; where David, not Ed Miliband, succeeds Gordon Brown.

[tomtom]

Imagine a world without him; where David, not Ed Miliband, succeeds Gordon Brown.

And in that world our present prime minister would surely have already been on Im a Celebrity.... having torpedoed his oven ready career over some indiscretion or something...

[TobyD]

Thanks for highlighting this, I'd missed his interview with the Observer.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/aug/01/len-mccluskey-labour-should-not-be-taking-unites-money-for-granted

I agree McCluskey is often a gift for the tories but not everything from the left of Labour is automatically wrong.

Perhaps Len shouldn't be taking Unite's money for granted either. One of the things which really irks me about many of the left wing bosses who propped up Corbyn is how much they preach about the 'workers' and 'privileged tories' whilst being really rather wealthy, especially Murray.
Are they just a bit more equal than the others?
A political party exists to gain power and enact its policies, surely? Starmer has made a very good start at repairing some of the damage done to Labours reputation and making it electable again. Len McCluskey seems to think that this just isn't really on. His interview on the today program was an embarrassment, when it was put to him that perhaps Starmer had made a moral choice in paying the whistleblowers, he responded that that wasn't being an issue, the point was that Labour could have beaten them in court.

I found that rather chilling.

[ali k]

His interview on the today program was an embarrassment, when it was put to him that perhaps Starmer had made a moral choice in paying the whistleblowers, he responded that that wasn't being an issue, the point was that Labour could have beaten them in court.

Yeh, it was quite telling wasn’t it. Basically if you can crush someone in court there’s no reason to ever make a payout to the individual 

[seankenny]

The hard left leaders (political and intellectual) are bullies and thugs. The rank and file are blinded to that by promises about health care and education. They’ll also tell you they’re devoted to Orwell whilst ignoring the fact he spent most of the 30s and 40s warning against this very tendency.

[Offwidth]

They don't enjoy that being pointed out.

On a different subject some details of a mini exodus.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/aug/04/number-of-uk-citizens-emigrating-to-eu-has-risen-by-30-since-brexit-vote

[TobyD]

His interview on the today program was an embarrassment, when it was put to him that perhaps Starmer had made a moral choice in paying the whistleblowers, he responded that that wasn't being an issue, the point was that Labour could have beaten them in court.

Yeh, it was quite telling wasn’t it. Basically if you can crush someone in court there’s no reason to ever make a payout to the individual 

I was aghast at his seemingly disbelief that anyone should ever make a moral choice if it might be financially disadvantageous.

It's probably on a similar moral plane to Boris Johnson's charming implied message that disagree with him, and you lose the whip; however if you're accused of a few rapes, fine, carry on as normal. Disgusting. Boris, that is.

[TobyD]

Can any of the UkB members who are in or associated with the Labour party shed any light on whether they think this story:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/aug/07/jeremy-corbyn-accuses-labour-officials-of-sabotaging-election-campaign?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Is likely to be in any way true? Did rebels wreck Corbyns election victory? I'd honestly like an opinion because it seems an awful lot like they still can't believe that the British people didn't vote for a hard left government.

[mrjonathanr]

Yanks Varoufakis seemed to think so, he discusses it briefly here iirc

[BrutusTheBear]

Good morning.  Hope your all keeping well.  Thank you to those of you whom encouraged me to continue to post a left (not hard left! TD) perspective on here.  I stopped posting here (on political stuff) and  withdrew from fudge book largely because it was causing me to become stressed and a large part of the stress was anger over the contents of the leaked Labour report for the ECHR. Given that I was (note the past tense SK will be pleased I'm sure) a Labpur Party activist and worked hard in my spare time to support the cause this all left a horrid sick feeling in my stomach.  I am pleased to report my mental health is much improved and my climbing levels of strength/fitness are on  the up too!   I am involved in political action with a small 'p' placing my energy into actions that have a direct effect in helping those in need.  NO. This is not a return to posting on political threads on here just a bit of closure for me  I guess.  Anyhow, here's a comprehensive report on the underreported shitshow that was going on behind the scenes in the LP, truly sickening.

[TobyD]

Thanks Brutus,  I'm not sure I need to watch a video of Jon Lansman to guess what the content will be? I take it therefore that you do think that Corbyn would have won if Labour moderates, or whatever you want to call them, hadn't sabotaged his election campaign by mis directing funds?

All I was after was people's opinions; I'm genuinely curious and unsure whether to regard this as another plaintive plea of we won the argument or a credible exposure of a bitter internal conflict. 

[Oldmanmatt]

Good morning.  Hope your all keeping well.  Thank you to those of you whom encouraged me to continue to post a left (not hard left! TD) perspective on here.  I stopped posting here (on political stuff) and  withdrew from fudge book largely because it was causing me to become stressed and a large part of the stress was anger over the contents of the leaked Labour report for the ECHR. Given that I was (note the past tense SK will be pleased I'm sure) a Labpur Party activist and worked hard in my spare time to support the cause this all left a horrid sick feeling in my stomach.  I am pleased to report my mental health is much improved and my climbing levels of strength/fitness are on  the up too!   I am involved in political action with a small 'p' placing my energy into actions that have a direct effect in helping those in need.  NO. This is not a return to posting on political threads on here just a bit of closure for me  I guess.  Anyhow, here's a comprehensive report on the underreported shitshow that was going on behind the scenes in the LP, truly sickening.

Very, very, glad you’re feeling a bit better.
Generally speaking, if you are paying attention, the country/world sucks right now. Switching it off is quite important. I’ve had to.
I hope things continue to improve.

[ali k]

Good on you Brutus. I stopped using FB a few years ago and feel much better for it. Pretty poisonous for individual mental health and society at large IMO.

Very sad to hear that you’ve pulled back from Labour Party activism though. I supported a lot of the Corbyn/McDonnell policies but only joined the party after the election defeat in December. Not because I support a huge shift to the right per se, but because I see Starmer as the best opportunity to hold Johnson/Cummings and this current cabal to account and hopefully to ultimately get rid of them. That’s the most important thing for me right now. For too many of the electorate, Corbyn just wasn’t the right person to do that. I’m sure the right wing media had a lot to do with it but unfortunately that’s just the rules of engagement as it stands, and he didn’t help himself a lot of the time.

I think the worst thing the Labour Party could do right now is blow itself up with factionalism and in-fighting and allow Johnson another easy win in a few years’ time.

Glad you’re feeling better.

[tomtom]

Good to hear from you again Brutus

FWIW I view Facebook through a 3rd party app that removes all the advertising and suggested posts. Its remarkably anodyne now... and just what I want it for (keeping in touch with a few people) and Lancashire climbing gossip

[Offwidth]

Glad you are back and feeling better Brutus. Please stay.

I'm not impressed with the video so far (still watching).  The key point we can agree on is the evidence showing real issues of concern in the party are not being discussed in the mainstream press and they are important and should be. Also that staffers should function independently of factions (as hard as the may be).  We can also agree that this is great news for tory propagandists who are hiding their own similar and equally nasty factionalism and a much worse issue with party racism.

I don't believe the staffers were trying to make Labour lose any election, however they were from the evidence clearly playing internal factional games and did seem to be using party money in that; all against party rules. This was a fight for the soul of Labour... there really was factionalism and there was plenty of inappropriate shit in the other direction as well. What some of the jewish Labour MPs faced was unequivocal racism from Labour members. The left of Labour cannot argue with the fact there were issues of anti-Semitism in Labour, only the degree.

I simply don't accept Labour staffers were evidenced to be racist or sexist towards Diane Abbott but I do believe from the evidence they encouraged harassment on factional lines and that should have been a party disciplinary issue. That this video spins a racist/sexist intent from Labour staffers is conspiracy theory factional mudslinging of the type the authors claim to abhor.