[Oldmanmatt]

What ever you might think of him in terms of like/dislike, Hislop is not someone to debate with;unless extremely (possibly to a superhuman degree) well prepared.

[TobyD]

Spidermonkey, I agree with your criticism of policy just not the label thick as mince. It's rather unlikely to be true, and it's not as if almost any member of the cabinet you care to mention doesn't have a ream of available incompetency with which to criticize them.

I can't remember the columnist who suggested it, but you have to wonder if Johnson didn't pick this lot to make sure no one made him look bad, because he's insecure about his own political performance.

[spidermonkey09]

Fair points; I suppose its an interesting question at which point incompetence and stupidity become one and the same.

[Offwidth]

I agree. In the context of the normal intellect and emotional intelligence associated with the role of Home Secretary (and PM) I do think Toby doest protest too much about the use of these adjectives.

Latest:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/21/priti-patel-storm-warning-civil-servant-david-normington-immigration

The US has led the way on this issue as they have had three fairly recent Presidents who deserve such labels. The first two were firont men for clever and devious ideological advisors and the latest seems totally out of control.

[ali k]

Spidermonkey, I agree with your criticism of policy just not the label thick as mince. It's rather unlikely to be true, and it's not as if almost any member of the cabinet you care to mention doesn't have a ream of available incompetency with which to criticize them.

Toby, I agree with you regarding personal criticism based on looks, dress sense, mannerisms or other irrelevant attributes. But when people like Patel, who exudes a smug arrogance and belittles others (interviewers who ask tough questions, or now senior civil servants it seems) as a way to deflect from the fact that she’s so out of her depth in the role she’s in I think her low intelligence (relative to the position she holds) has relevance.

For what it’s worth, I think her opposite number in Labour is also on a similar intelligence level but at least she isn’t hostile, condescending and downright nasty when she’s floundering.

[tomtom]

I agree. In the context of the normal intellect and emotional intelligence associated with the role of Home Secretary (and PM) I do think Toby doest protest too much about the use of these adjectives.

Latest:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/21/priti-patel-storm-warning-civil-servant-david-normington-immigration

The US has led the way on this issue as they have had three fairly recent Presidents who deserve such labels. The first two were firont men for clever and devious ideological advisors and the latest seems totally out of control.

Or his chief advisor is called Vladimir.....

[Will Hunt]

If I might indulge myself just a little bit. For all of Patel's personal character faults, she does also look like her tears would turn into serpents when they hit the floor. She has a certain cold malevolence about her. I can only think that her views on capital punishment are borne of an earnest desire to sign some death warrants over her morning coffee. Perhaps they'd even let her come in on the weekends and pull the lever a few times? A girl's got to dream a little, no?

[SA Chris]

What ever you might think of him in terms of like/dislike, Hislop is not someone to debate with;unless extremely (possibly to a superhuman degree) well prepared.

Like turning up to a gunfight armed with a knife.

[Nigel]

And let's not forget, a first class example that having to resign from cabinet in disgrace is no barrier to a swift and unscrutinised return. See also Liam Fox.

And Gavin Williamson

Ah yes, how could I forget him! Possibly because his turnaround from forced resignation to back-in-cabinet was so quick I didn't have enough time to get used to him being "disgraced".

All are publicly known to have been conducting themselves outside of government policy while serving in the cabinet, arguably in the service of foreign powers. Time was when this was an instant disqualification from public life. Now you only have to wait a few months and have the right mates. More grist to the argument that the press in this country is too right wing - imagine the pillorying Corbyn (or any Labour leader?) would get for rehabilitating these characters?

RE "Is Priti Patel thick-gate": A reminder of why she resigned - she went on a "private holiday" to Israel, where unually for a "holiday" she met various government figures up to and including the prime minister, and visited the occupied Golan Heights, whose occupation is not recognised by the UK. She failed to declare any of it thus breaking the ministerial code (might have been fine if she had, although the Golan thing wouldn't have been a good look). Unfortunately for her she did all of this in the most visible way possible including allowed herself to be photographed many times. Perhaps she thought it possible that once she'd left the UK she could pursue her own foreign policy, and literally no-one back home would notice? If so, then you can draw your own conclusion on her intelligence...

[dunnyg]

You say all that about her intelligence, but despite going on questionable holidays etc., she has managed to position herself as the home secretary...

[Nigel]

You say all that about her intelligence, but despite going on questionable holidays etc., she has managed to position herself as the home secretary...

No she didn't, she was "positioned" there by Boris Johnson / Dominic Cummings. Their actual reasoning for that is for them to know. If you wish to believe that it was due to her pre-eminent intelligence then that's your prerogative. I suspect lots of other factors played a more decisive role.

[dunnyg]

Well I don't know what her aims in life are, but I recon one of them was a top job in government. I'm not saying she is the brightest cookie out there, but she must be pretty good at manipulating things/people to get where/what she wants, which shows some kind of intelligence? I think people commonly say politicians are thick, as it is the easy answer for explaining actions we don't understand due to not having the full picture, and covering up that we expect MPs to be infallible.

Why she got the job is a good question, but one we are unlikely to find out.

Not sure why I'm defending her. My limited understanding of her policies and views are that they range from ill thought out, to abhorrent.

Fucking politics.

[SA Chris]

Not sure why I'm defending her. My limited understanding of her Dominic Cummings' policies and views are that they range from ill thought out, to abhorrent.

And mostly on the abhorrent side.

[Nigel]

Fucking politics.

Agreed!

Perhaps you are right that she has shown some nous to get where she is. Obviously there is the more cynical take that she is well known for espousing some pretty retrograde views which endear her to the right (detention centres, death penalty), while simultaneously providing some natural cover for nasty home office policies by virtue of her being the daughter of immigrants herself. Ticking two cabinet diversity boxes at once, and of course her Brexit position, may well have figured too. Like you say, who is to know?

Now I come to think of it, maybe my original point - she shouldn't be allowed in the cabinet in my opinion - is another factor? The fact she has been forced to resign in recent memory might make her more malleable / less of a threat to emperor Johnson (feel free to change for Cummings here too SA Chris!)...

[petejh]

Whatever her faults, level of intelligence or heaven forbid redeeming qualities are, they are unlikely to be fairly described by people ideologically opposed to her politics posting on ukb. Why are you even bothering? This politics thread puzzles me - it's like an online version of listening to dour, world-weary and bitter old men who've been beaten by life, grumbling amongst themselves about how shit they think the world is 

[tomtom]

Welcome Pete 🤗 😃

[TobyD]

Whatever her faults, level of intelligence or heaven forbid redeeming qualities are, they are unlikely to be fairly described by people ideologically opposed to her politics posting on ukb. Why are you even bothering? This politics thread puzzles me - it's like an online version of listening to dour, world-weary and bitter old men who've been beaten by life, grumbling amongst themselves about how shit they think the world is 

So are you only allowed to criticize people you agree with? Perhaps football commentators should only cover their own team? As you clearly aren't that interested in people talking about politics, why indeed comment?

[Oldmanmatt]

Whatever her faults, level of intelligence or heaven forbid redeeming qualities are, they are unlikely to be fairly described by people ideologically opposed to her politics posting on ukb. Why are you even bothering? This politics thread puzzles me - it's like an online version of listening to dour, world-weary and bitter old men who've been beaten by life, grumbling amongst themselves about how shit they think the world is 

Or, translated, “don’t talk about politics or views I don’t agree with, because then I’ll just say you’re moaning, or try to belittle you by mocking your views, especially if you express outrage or any real moral conviction”?

[Will Hunt]

Shocking to think that there's a Home Secretary who does not understand what the term "beyond all reasonable doubt" means and that it is presently in use. She had absolutely no response to Hislop's point.

[mrjonathanr]

Pretty strong on counter-terrorism though

[Oldmanmatt]

Pretty strong on counter-terrorism though

I thought she was for Counter-counter-terrorism?

[tomtom]

This politics thread puzzles me - it's like an online version of listening to dour, world-weary and bitter old men who've been beaten by life, grumbling amongst themselves about how shit they think the world is 

I think Pete has a point! 😂
(And that’s certainly including myself!)

[Nigel]

I'm not normally a fan of links to the guardian, but this is too topical to resist:

Perma-smirking Priti Patel brings the hostile environment in-house

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/21/priti-patel-hostile-environment?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

It's almost like the author reads ukb, its all in there - intelligence jibes, weird "holidays", the lot...

[Offwidth]

Whatever her faults, level of intelligence or heaven forbid redeeming qualities are, they are unlikely to be fairly described by people ideologically opposed to her politics posting on ukb. Why are you even bothering? This politics thread puzzles me - it's like an online version of listening to dour, world-weary and bitter old men who've been beaten by life, grumbling amongst themselves about how shit they think the world is 

Things don't get better by the voting population burying their head in the sand. My entire working and political  life has involved fighting predudice and stupidity to get where I did and then to support others in that.

Maybe you can give some examples of where popularist leaders appointing thick and occasionally criminal megaphones like Patel to major ministerial positions, pandering to the worst in small c conservative prejudice and paranoia (whilst keeping away any threat of leadership challenge) ended well.  Her points based policies are plain dumb even from a conservative perspective .... wait until those tory voters in the SE can't get workers to look after their relatives in care homes. All our farming that needs pickers is stuffed, many hotels and restaurants, cleaning companies.... the list goes on and on.

[petejh]

Whatever her faults, level of intelligence or heaven forbid redeeming qualities are, they are unlikely to be fairly described by people ideologically opposed to her politics posting on ukb. Why are you even bothering? This politics thread puzzles me - it's like an online version of listening to dour, world-weary and bitter old men who've been beaten by life, grumbling amongst themselves about how shit they think the world is 

Things don't get better by the voting population burying their head in the sand. My entire working and political  life has involved fighting predudice and stupidity to get where I did and then to support others in that.

Maybe you can give some examples of where popularist leaders appointing thick and occasionally criminal megaphones like Patel to major ministerial positions, pandering to the worst in small c conservative prejudice and paranoia (whilst keeping away any threat of leadership challenge) ended well.  Her points based policies are plain dumb even from a conservative perspective .... wait until those tory voters in the SE can't get workers to look after their relatives in care homes. All our farming that needs pickers is stuffed, many hotels and restaurants, cleaning companies.... the list goes on and on.

I'm not here to give you examples of anything - I didn't offer any view on Patel or my perception of her competence. I said this thread is like the online version of listening to dour, world-weary and bitter old men who've been beaten by life, grumbling amongst themselves about how shit they think the world is. This thread could be re-titled from 'politics 2020' to 'middle-aged left-wing men despairing at the state of the world 2020'. Fair enough, I should just ignore the thread and I mostly do, but every now and then I just wonder what you gain from bouncing pessimism and despair back and forth between the same regular 4 or 5 people. I wonder the same about some of my facebook 'friends' - you know the ones who regularly share, unsolicited, their despairing views of the state of the world.

In response to your 'things don't get better.. etc. etc.' and 'wait until those tory voters.. etc. etc.'
I get the impression you've probably been repeating these mantras to yourself and others since before you got your first personal computer. It gets boring quickly. If, as according to you 'things don't get better by the voting population burying their heads in the sand', then from your perspective they can't have been getting better for a very long time. More head-pulling-out-of-sand posts required I'm assuming is your answer?