[cheque]

All that’s missing is Scooby Doo’s mates pulling a rubber mask off Belhaj’s face to reveal Rich Simpson.

[crzylgs]

Of all the climbs to claim an ascent of with zero evidence and a highly questionable, dubious story which contains more plot holes than a straight to VHS 'who dun it'... Action Directe... Seriously?!? 

[Mr E S Capegoat]

All that’s missing is Scooby Doo’s mates pulling a rubber mask off Belhaj’s face to reveal Rich Simpson.

Sounds like Rich did better than this guy, Doylo? Maybe he did it after all.......

[Doylo]

All that’s missing is Scooby Doo’s mates pulling a rubber mask off Belhaj’s face to reveal Rich Simpson.

Sounds like Rich did better than this guy, Doylo? Maybe he did it after all.......

A lot better if that blog is right  .

[Fultonius]

Maybe it’s the time of year for this sort of thread.

Over on UKC there is thread running about a long-standing and regular poster called Goucho with an impressive profile.

His ‘death’ was announced in January but it appears from the current thread that his colourful life and climbing achievements and existence were wholly fabricated.

So Grimer....are you , in fact, Goucho?

[andy popp]

This is really interesting in this context, though its well worth watching for other reasons too.

[webbo]

The latest thing on the other channel is the authenticity of Touching the Void and or its follow up books.

[andy popp]

The latest thing on the other channel is the authenticity of Touching the Void and or its follow up books.

Is that in a forum Webbo? It would take a very high degree of complicity between Joe and Simon - knowing Simon I find the whole idea completely implausible.

[shark]

Whilst we are at it a friend of mine is convinced that Haskett-Smith never climbed Napes Needle. I’ll get the details if anyone’s interested.

[duncan]

   "I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others of whom I made the most careful and particular enquiry". Thucydides. Peloponnesian War.

    "I've just jazzed mine up a little".  Milligan. World War II.

(from the introduction to 'Adolf Hitler - my part in his downfall', Spike Milligan's autobiography)

The speculation about Touching The Void was an interpretation of a comment from Jim Perrin that a mountaineering story that had penetrated public consciousness was a work of fiction. TTV is one of the few that fits the bill. I went to University with Simon, I've taken a professional look at Joe's knee (impressively scarred), and I heard the story independently from both before the book was written. Some people do not regard Perrin as a completely reliable witness and he has previous when it comes to successful authors in 'his field'.

Joe's subsequent books might have been jazzed-up a little but equally he was always an accident waiting to happen and had plenty of raw material to work with. 

[webbo]

The latest thing on the other channel is the authenticity of Touching the Void and or its follow up books.

Is that in a forum Webbo? It would take a very high degree of complicity between Joe and Simon - knowing Simon I find the whole idea completely implausible.

From what I’ve read on the Groucho thread there is a guy Robert Durran who climbed the Eiger in1998 and wrote about it, told JS about it. It then appears in one of the books as JS’s story of his time on the Eiger.
This is if I have understood it right.

[Will Hunt]

There's a great folk album called True Stories. The artist said something like "not all of these things happened, but they're all True Stories".

[Fiend]

I’d love to see the full list of his first ascents (aren’t there like 4000 of them?!  ) so we could get a good idea of what percentage are any good etc. It seems like an unfathomable number to me.

Same question would apply to Crocker. I still find it a very interesting comparison between GG and Crocker - in terms of new routing productivity and thus contribution to UK climbing based on that productivity. Read the Meirionnydd and North Devon & Cornwall guides and look at what Crocker has put up (that's before the colossal amount of closer-to-home contributions around Bristol and South Wales), there is a shocking amount of potentially classic stuff - I'd say he's got more unrepeated hollow-starred *** routes in the UK than everyone else put together - BUT how useful a contribution is that to the majority of climbers?? Conversely GG has got more 0-to-1 star routes that are climbed every single week than maybe anyone else....but is that a contribution or just pandering to the mediocre tastes of modern sport climbers??

[tomtom]

Caught up with Rman yesterday for the first time in ages and we were talking about G problems in Lancs.

This arête in Lester Mill quarry https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=549666 came up in conversation from both of us... great arête line but no repeats at 7A and we’ve both left scratching our heads when looking at it...

[Moo]

That Jim Perrin stuff is a totally shocking I was totally ignorant as to there being any controversy surrounding him but them I'm not familiar with any of his work.

All of this stuff about liars does have an affect on the rest of us. If I'm trying something remotely close to or at my limit and I happen to be alone, I prop my phone in a shoe and try to get a video. I'd be totally gutted if anyone thought I'd lied about anything and these days it really is so easy to do.

[jwi]

All of this stuff about liars does have an affect on the rest of us. If I'm trying something remotely close to or at my limit and I happen to be alone, I prop my phone in a shoe and try to get a video. I'd be totally gutted if anyone thought I'd lied about anything and these days it really is so easy to do.

No one would care to doubt any ascent I've done (as no one would care if I'm crap or super crap at climbing), but if anyone did I'd think it would be really easy to just reclimb the claimed route/boulder with them belaying?  Doesn't work for onsights/flashes/chop-routes obviously but I cannot imagine someone not being able to reclimb something they previously done with minimal effort. I imagine a professional climber would get tons of free publicity for restaging a doubted ascent infront of the doubter, so a double win.

[Alex-the-Alex]

Even at my shitty level there's been quite a few things that have been marginal/form/condition dependant enough that I Havnt been able to redo them. I imagine it's more so at the top end. Regarding the lies i find lying about hard repeats less loathsome than lying about FAs. Lying about the nth repeat o action direct doesn't really affect anyone but Instagram man and his sponsors. Lying about FAs is taking away from someone else who might have actually done it.

[r-man]

Caught up with Rman yesterday for the first time in ages and we were talking about G problems in Lancs.

This arête in Lester Mill quarry https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=549666 came up in conversation from both of us... great arête line but no repeats at 7A and we’ve both left scratching our heads when looking at it...

Though to be fair, I've never had a proper go, just had a little look on my own once and backed off. I don't think it will be super hard, but I'm keen for a pad party on it sometime. Landing is better than it used to be. Got it on the list for a nice team day out, will be interesting to see if 7A is the right ballpark.

The real headscratcher is the Montcliffe arete. It doesn't climb like Gaskins's description ("an easy couple of moves to small crimps and slightly out of balance climbing" ...er, no.). And giving it 7C+ has buried it in obscurity, when it should be celebrated as one of the best hard aretes on grit. It's a really impressive line. I've seen Mike Adams do all the moves, working it on a rope, and he reckoned 8Bish.

[Mr E S Capegoat]

That Jim Perrin stuff is a totally shocking I was totally ignorant as to there being any controversy surrounding him but them I'm not familiar with any of his work.

All of this stuff about liars does have an affect on the rest of us. If I'm trying something remotely close to or at my limit and I happen to be alone, I prop my phone in a shoe and try to get a video. I'd be totally gutted if anyone thought I'd lied about anything and these days it really is so easy to do.

Nah, unless you’re climbing 8B+ or putting up new top end stuff what’s the point? Maybe as a memory or cool thing to share or whatever but the idea of filing it away as some sort of evidence in case you get called out. Fuck that

[cheque]

No one would care to doubt any ascent I've done (as no one would care if I'm crap or super crap at climbing), but if anyone did I'd think it would be really easy to just reclimb the claimed route/boulder with them belaying?  ...I cannot imagine someone not being able to reclimb something they previously done with minimal effort. I imagine a professional climber would get tons of free publicity for restaging a doubted ascent infront of the doubter, so a double win.

  What could be more fun than demonstrating your skills to doubters? There’s a story in the new North York Moors guide of someone doing a first ascent, the local cognoscenti not believing so him giving them a time and date to meet him at the crag- he repeated it first go in front of the envoy they’d sent.

[Fiend]

The real headscratcher is the Montcliffe arete. It doesn't climb like Gaskins's description ("an easy couple of moves to small crimps and slightly out of balance climbing" ...er, no.). And giving it 7C+ has buried it in obscurity, when it should be celebrated as one of the best hard aretes on grit. It's a really impressive line. I've seen Mike Adams do all the moves, working it on a rope, and he reckoned 8Bish.

It doesn't look that easy, no.... Could vaguely see some small holds, and possibilities, but clearly hard, real mega line too.

[tomtom]

This it?

[Mr E S Capegoat]

The real headscratcher is the Montcliffe arete. It doesn't climb like Gaskins's description ("an easy couple of moves to small crimps and slightly out of balance climbing" ...er, no.). And giving it 7C+ has buried it in obscurity, when it should be celebrated as one of the best hard aretes on grit. It's a really impressive line. I've seen Mike Adams do all the moves, working it on a rope, and he reckoned 8Bish.

It doesn't look that easy, no.... Could vaguely see some small holds, and possibilities, but clearly hard, real mega line too.

I sent gangle a photo when me and thee were climbing that lovely arête Fiend. He’s gone into retirement tho, full on pipe n slippers

[Fiend]

That's the one TT. Pretty sexy in the flesh. The arete, not r-man that is. Well r-man might be sexy in his own hippy-chic right, I can't really judge.

ShaveScrote, I wasn't climbing any lovely arete, I was failing as usual. Pass me the slippers and pipe - make it a crack one.

[Mr E S Capegoat]

This is really interesting in this context, though its well worth watching for other reasons too.

I enjoyed watching this, good to hear a different perspective. A good illustration about a person being ‘owned’ by the other. And a reason why the need film is double edged. There’s some merit to the belief that a camera is stealing a bit of your soul