[Duma]

Anyone have anymore details about this? Caff says 8b on his IG

https://www.instagram.com/p/B5IMiHwD3x9/?igshid=pfcm9fdjbuag

[bigironhorse]

Just saw this in DMMs facebook page

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2551683221546112&id=120904307957361

[Fiend]

Hopefully that works. E7+ huhuh.

[Duma]

E7+ huhuh.

*strokes beard*

[Johnny Brown]

I belayed him on an attempt on Monday. The crux sequence starts as that first photo looks really fucking thin for about 4m to the peg. A boulder grade would probably make more sense for that bit as it didn't look much like any sport routes I've been on. Top roof is a bit harder than Coventry Street but not much - E5/6. I had a burn on Zippy and Plant's top-rope when they were trying it and flashed it apart from a bit of a rest. Two new pegs - one from Ben at about 5m and one from Zip or Plant just above the roof. Fair few others in situ.

[El Mocho]

How Many Roads, E7 6c (f8a+)

The wall between Oxford Road and Jermyn Street.
Start in the centre of the wall and climb directly up to a shield of rock and slight rest level with the second peg (taking a line to the right of the pegs). A hard sequence leads to a slightly better hold where you can clip the 3rd and 4th peg (equalised and tied off). More hard climbing leads to the cave. Climb directly through the cave (2 pegs) and make another tricky sequence around the lip (peg). Easier but still testing climbing leads to a junction with Jermyn Street a couple of meters below the top.

The route climbs pretty much like a sport climb, the only necky bit is getting to the first peg but this is prob only about E4, and I only placed 1 wire at the point I joined Jermyn Street at the top - hence the relatively low E grade for the difficulty of the climbing. It did feel approaching 8b to me but I'm aware vertical crimping is not my best style and it felt like a couple of the moves might be a bit easier if you were just a touch taller (in fact the move I fell off the most wouldn't need to be done if you were a bit taller (I think)). This isn't me trying to be all modest "ooh it wasn't that bad..." I did find it hard and was really pumped on the last few moves to the cave I just genuinely think other folk might find it closer to 8a, I don't know and don't really care. I enjoyed the couple of days when I was falling off it and I enjoyed the day I did it.

Note on the pegs/the top. Firstly a big thanks to Chris Plant for encouraging me to 'steal' the top off him. I phoned him up before I tried to lead it all saying I was planning on trying to finish up his line (which means new climbing all the way from the first move to 2m below the top) but that I was going to sit on one of the pegs in the cave so that I wouldn't have stolen his line (Chris had placed a peg and was still actively (to a degree) trying the line - I think starting up Oxford Street to the cave). Chris said this was stupid and I should just climb the whole thing if I could. I also took a little while to decide to place the extra peg on the first half (the second peg). Without this peg you would be decking out from the hardest moves. There were side runners available in Jermyn Street which could be placed by making only 1 or 2 moves right from the slight rest and this is what I was initially planning on doing. In the end I changed my mind and placed 1 peg in an old peg scar which resulted in the whole route being safe (the line must be an old aid route as there are a whole bunch of peg scars up it (mostly too poor for hand holds))

The line is pretty much as shown by the chalk/ab rope in the below photo.

Edit, I can't embed photo, it's here: https://s145.photobucket.com/user/benbransby/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20191121_123624_zps904kimxx.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

[haydn jones]

Phyched for this, If anyone else wants to go send me a message I'd be keep to go.

[shark]

Phyched for this, If anyone else wants to go send me a message I'd be keep to go.

It's "Syked" FFS

 

[Mr E S Capegoat]

Psyched

[Nike Air]

That does look good Ben. I'd never noticed that gap....
 

[Fiend]

Nice one El Moocho, good write up.

Out of idle curiosity, if anyone was to raise a small stink about adding a new peg to Millstone, what would be your extrapolation of the thought process here:

I also took a little while to decide to place the extra peg on the first half (the second peg). Without this peg you would be decking out from the hardest moves. There were side runners available in Jermyn Street which could be placed by making only 1 or 2 moves right from the slight rest and this is what I was initially planning on doing. In the end I changed my mind and placed 1 peg in an old peg scar which resulted in the whole route being safe (the line must be an old aid route as there are a whole bunch of peg scars up it (mostly too poor for hand holds))

(Not being an arse but it is the sort of thing that maybe someone could huff about)

[webbo]

Paul Mitchell got a lot of flack for placing one or was it for being Paul Mitchell

[Will Hunt]

Paul Mitchell got a lot of flack for placing one or was it for being Paul Mitchell

To be fair, I think Paul got flack for doing a shit new route (which I think turned out to be not new) and moaning that nobody was climbing his shit new route because it didn't have a peg, and then putting a peg in and then still nobody climbing his shit (not) new route.


Pegs are a funny one. No diss to Bransby, but I can't help but think it creates slightly unsatisfactory new routes. Maybe unsatisfactory is the wrong word. Short-lived might be a better way of putting it? The pegs are good now (not sure how old they all are. I suppose at least the new ones are good?) but they'll deteriorate over time and who knows when they'll cross the line into not-good-enough. Eventually there'll be this E7 there that nobody's fallen off in years and which everyone sort of knows isn't E7 any more but isn't really sure of how dangerous it is. And maybe the pegs will rot and not be possible to remove and what then? Maybe that doesn't matter? Maybe some routes are just transient or destined to get harder over time?

Not trying to slag anyone or their efforts, just thinking aloud really.

[webbo]

Paul Mitchell got a lot of flack for placing one or was it for being Paul Mitchell

To be fair, I think Paul got flack for doing a shit new route (which I think turned out to be not new) and moaning that nobody was climbing his shit new route because it didn't have a peg, and then putting a peg in and then still nobody climbing his shit (not) new route.

He’s clearly not like a fine wine, improving with age.

[Will Hunt]

Just had a PM from someone climbing in North Wales. Apparently they have a new development there where they're using stainless steel pegs, but the pegs have little holes in the middle so they can be used with resin. Long lasting and strong. Sounds like a neat and sustainable idea.

[webbo]

So you find a flaw or bit of crack in the rock bash in a peg a couple of times. Knock it out fill the hole with resin and knock in one of these stainless steel pegs.
Not many shades of grey from a bolt.

[Will Hunt]

No idea. I think they're mainly being used to re-equip old peg routes where the protection is now highly dubious. Probably on the Lleyn and the like.

[webbo]

Not that I have problem with bolts. If you are placing something permanent with a hammer, don’t piss about with pegs. It just confuses things.

[Mr E S Capegoat]

There’s a few of those in black wall at llanymynech, my gut instinct was may as well have been a bolt. I quite like a good old pegged quarry route. A new peg a millstone to create what looks to be a fantastic pitch seems to be in keeping with the quarry vibe. DT replaced all the old iron in Wall Street crash with pegs back in the day. Seem to remember that was controversial. I’d rather be at millstone trying this than queuing up with fiend at the Tor or Malham. Nice.

[webbo]

When you decide to drop off on to a peg by your feet because the top of the crag is covered in mud and end swinging through the nettles at the bottom with that peg and another rattling down the rope.
You start to question their use especially when said route is now 6B+ and bolted.

[mrjonathanr]

Not that I have problem with bolts. If you are placing something permanent on grit with a hammer, don’t piss about with pegs. It just confuses things.

Hmmm...

[Fiend]

Quarried grit tho.

FWIW, I like pegs in general. They have to go into natural weaknesses in the rock, and feel more like fixed trad gear than sport gear.

But there are sometimes ponderings about adding new ones.

[mrjonathanr]

Agreed, impressive route from Ben.

[El Mocho]

Out of idle curiosity, if anyone was to raise a small stink about adding a new peg to Millstone, what would be your extrapolation of the thought process here:

I also took a little while to decide to place the extra peg on the first half...

I think there were a few mitigating factors in this case (although it could easily be argued against, see Wills post etc) but the largest one was, if I'm honest, probably a more selfish one: I had one go on the route with the side runner out right (I placed a couple of small wires level with where the second peg now is but I was a little concerned they could lift out so I did and extra move up and placed another 2, so pretty high) I then fell off a few moves later. It felt a slightly contrived way to climb it, deviating away from the line, getting a better rest (bridged in the groove of Jermyn Street to place the higher 2 wires) and actually less exciting/smaller fall. I thought it would make a better climb, and be more fun for me, to have the peg in but no side runners.

The route already had a bunch of pegs in it, the ones on the lower wall and the first 2 in the cave look pretty old but with the exception of the tied of blade (3rd peg but equalised with the 4th which is right by it) they all seem good, by adding an extra peg I wouldn't really be altering the feel of the route, wouldn't be making the route have a 'use by date' any earlier than it already does (the new peg should last longer than the existing ones) and the peg was also going to be placed in an existing peg scar so minimising any potential damage to the rock. I'll admit these are all slightly weak arguments, or a way of justifying placing the peg when I could as easily make a bunch of arguments for doing it with the side runner or leaving it for someone better/bolder to do without.

I did chat with a few people about adding a peg and got responses from "bang in as many as you can" to probably the least positive but not overly negative either from Johnny B (I can't remember his exact words or take on it, I'm sure if he's bothered he can come on here and say).

Not wanting to diss Chris P (and I can't even if I wanted to, having placed a peg lower down) but I'd of not placed the final peg over the lip (which is the newish one Chris/Zippy added) although I was happy enough to clip it as this was in a crack which would take a wire (definitely a little higher) and the second of the old pegs in the cave was only at waist level when the new one is clipped and the top crux started. I wasn't worried about falling off this bit though as I a) felt pretty solid on it and b) trusted and would have been happy to fall onto the pegs in the cave.

(Not being an arse but it is the sort of thing that maybe someone could huff about)

Don't worry about 'being an arse' for my sake, I'm perfectly happy for people to give me a bit of hassle/ask questions if they feel they want to, it's this sort of debate and ethical standards which make climbing in the UK so good. If someone comes along and climbs it without any of the pegs they are more than welcome to rename it, grade it and get whatever glory they want to from it...

[Fiend]

Good further explanation, cheers. I suppose this sort of thing with plenty of pegs already gets into grey area stuff anyway, look at something like Hell's Wall...