[Oldmanmatt]

Plaid Cymru's manifesto? Incorrectly stated the number of petrol bombs it would produce..

I don’t have a holiday home in North Wales, so I don’t pay much attention to the political wing of Meibion Glyndŵr...
😜

[Offwidth]

If anyone would like to defend the BBC over the unfolding clusterfuck over Johnson not turning up for his Andrew Neil interview, I'm all ears...

I love the BBC for all sorts of reasons, but too often their fuck ups favours the Tories. It's beyond a joke.

Edit: passive aggressive tone not intended! More just incredulous that this has been allowed to even be an issue. They all should have been locked in. Maybe he'll back down but I think it's unlikely.

If the BBC had any courage they would threaten to replace him (not with and empty chair but) with the least sympathetic big name tory they could find.. someone like Hestletine..... who could come on and get asked all the same questions on Boris's behalf.

Meanwhile the latest in the tories scumbag limbo contest (how low can they go):

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/28/revealed-tory-candidates-issued-with-attack-manuals-on-how-to-smear-rivals

[Will Hunt]

Imagine my horror to find that this absolutely hilarious thing was put out by the Conservatives.




Some of the comments on the video are great.

"Did anybody else accidently draft a new trade deal while listening to this?"

[seankenny]

Well Sean... my MP Chris Leslie, a good chap, ended up leaving Labour partly because of the mob. I've watched the mob and opposed them politically in my trade union (including standing agaisnt them at NEC)  for decades.

I don't get this. They're an absolutely rum bunch who you will fight against in your union, but you want to hand them the keys to the kingdom?

I know Corbyn did those things, but I don't know his motives...

Come on, that's so lame. Corbyn hung out with racists, praised racists, happened to be on Facebook pages with racist posts, had a surprising amount of casual racism going on in his life... never seemed to call them out mind... and we're left to ponder the great man's motives as if he was actually interesting.

Having bigots and morons in power makes us fools if we choose to follow them - or to make excuses for them.

That congress problem you describe was shameful.

It was. And we can trust these guys in power?

[Fiend]

Thanks for the reply earlier Sean.

The article was semi-useful in explaining the issue although again without many examples.

I also found this useful for the basics on the Pro-Tory Conservative State Media site:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-43893791

In fact, historically, most Jewish people voted for the Labour Party, when it was supportive of the State of Israel.

But the party's stance on Israel began to change after the 1967 Middle East war - when Palestinians in East Jerusalem, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip came under Israeli occupation.

Traditionally the left wing has spoken up for the rights of oppressed minorities in the UK and around the world - and the Labour Party now aligns itself with the Palestinian cause.

Palestinians want their own state and face some severe restrictions from Israel. Israel says that, in the absence of any peace settlement, these measures are to protect it from Palestinian violence.

By the 1980s, people with strong views on Israel became more prominent within Labour. This contributed to the party developing an association with anti-Zionism, something which had previously been limited to the far-left.

From which I glean that an increasing anti-Zionist stance, which while possibly justifiable and not necessarily problematic in itself, has possibly allowed more hostile anti-Semitic elements to flourish in the party. I never knew foreign policy on Israel/Palestine was such a contentious issue, and perhaps it has been detrimental to the Labour party to have strong alignments on it.

All of which has been vastly overshadowed by Will's boriswave link above, of course.

[Offwidth]

The people I stood against were to the left of Corbyn. I don't regard his motives as that crucial (Im just pointing out none of us know) and as I said, I always felt it was a mistake to make him leader. I'm certainly not handing him any keys... if anything it's a straight jacket, in any minority government... I fully expect him to have at least a 50% chance of standing down in such circumstances. I also expect most of the PLP to continue to be a thorn in his side even if he stays. An uncontrolled  Boris majority vs a controlled Corbyn minority is not a hard choice.

[TobyD]

I never knew foreign policy on Israel/Palestine was such a contentious issue, and perhaps it has been detrimental to the Labour party to have strong alignments on it.

This is precisely part of my issue with it, why are the left wing obsessed with the oppression of the Palestinians above say, the repression of the Uigas by China,  or Rohingya muslims in Myanmar? Do they have any other real foreign policies? I am certainly not belittling the oppression of Palestinians but this situation seems to be disproportionately important to certain factions of left wing politics.

The UK seems to have renounced foreign policy altogether, the foreign secretary at the moment is so on his brief that hes not sure where Calais is, and hes being sued, standing accused of a corrupt and inappropriate issuing of diplomatic immunity to Anne Sacoolas. Christ knows what hes doing about Iran, Syria,  Saudi Arabia, the Yemen....

The all pervasive time wasting 3 year clusterfuck of arguing about the EU seems to have changed this country into an angrier,  more introverted,  uglier place with seemingly little time for a world outside its walls.

[Offwidth]

The think tanks influencing current Conservative policy:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/29/rightwing-thinktank-conservative-boris-johnson-brexit-atlas-network

[Oldmanmatt]

To paraphrase a Facebook post I read this morning:

“Imagine how morally bankrupt a country must be, that the incumbent government for the past decade can cut police numbers by 21000 officers, creating a crime wave and then win re-election by promising 20000 new officers to fight that crime wave...”

I was struck by the fact you could, with minor changes, tweek that paragraph to fit anything from “The NHS” and “A&E staff”, through to “immigration” or “highway maintenance” and absolutely every public service in between.

Why are we even remotely close to a Bojo majority?

[nai]

Why are we even remotely close to a Bojo majority?

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/general-election-british-uk-media-news-bias-tories-labour-a9209026.html?fbclid=IwAR0Ss5y8mn3M7U8c5V1gEMPFAwm5eduqr3ASHoR5_A2g7QBRLaIssTC91AM

[Oldmanmatt]

Why are we even remotely close to a Bojo majority?

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/general-election-british-uk-media-news-bias-tories-labour-a9209026.html?fbclid=IwAR0Ss5y8mn3M7U8c5V1gEMPFAwm5eduqr3ASHoR5_A2g7QBRLaIssTC91AM

It shouldn’t matter.
It should be obvious and yet...

Humans suck.

[Oldmanmatt]

On the BBC topic....

Hmmmm....

[Oldmanmatt]

A decade of Tory “Tough on crime” rule
A pretty little South Devon resort town, with some of the most expensive real estate in Britain.

Got this text from Mrs OMM, five minutes ago:

 

At the end of October, the man who murdered her husband, was moved from Cat A to Cat C (open) conditions, after only 10 years of his life sentence. He’d be convicted of assault twice since going inside and the murder was his 64th conviction for violence. The VLO had never heard of anyone going from A to Open, without a stint in B. Her opinion was that it was an overcrowding issue. And her comments on the chaos of the system, are unrepeatable.

Place is falling apart and more Tory shit is not the answer.

[TobyD]

A decade of Tory “Tough on crime” rule
A pretty little South Devon resort town, with some of the most expensive real estate in Britain.
...
Place is falling apart and more Tory shit is not the answer.

I take your point, and am pretty pissed off about the fact that it's looking far more than likely that the uk, or what remains of it, will have a conservative government for at least the next 5 years and probably more. But I think it's important not to overplay the pretty seaside town- I take it you mean Torquay? It has had significant social and drug problems for quite a long time. Although it has expensive posh bits it's not exactly Salcombe is it? I'm not saying that some government policies aren't responsible for making it worse, but the demise of British seaside towns has been an awful lot longer in the making.

[crzylgs]

A little aside from a North Bucks resident.

This seat has always been a Tory stronghold, in has been Labour controlled for two brief spells in the last 120yrs. Interestingly the last Labour MP from 1964-1970 was Robert Maxwell (yes THE Robert Maxwell, of creative accounting media empire and subsequent falling off a boat fame...). In recent years we've been 'represented' by John Bercow who has now been replaced and almost certainly a new Tory will enjoy a relatively safe seat.

For the record I'm a strong remainer. I don't especially enjoy talking politics, but socio-economic-political-integration with our neighbours seems like an incredibly beneficial, sensible and profitable thing to do. I always vote, often a coin toss between Lib Dem or Greens as they are usually the substantially '2nd' placed party and allows me to occasionally grumble about disliking FPTP / 2-party political systems. This year I believe the Greens have stood down as part of their pact with the Lib Dems. I've never been a member of any political party and have no recollection of signing up for any political newsletters etc.

After that back history and info... My main point. I've been receiving an astronomical amount of Lib Dem postal literature. For the last couple of weeks I hardly go two days (and often consecutive days!) without something with Jo Swinson's face plastered all over it, or that of the standing candidate Stephen Dorrell. I've received numerous duplicates of the same couple of letters / pamphlets. Today I got a new letter, from an 'independent' 'Elections Expert' who wasn't telling me who to vote for, but was nicely pointing out a few reasons why a tactical vote for Lib Dems might be a good idea especially if you're pro remain. At the bottom of the letter in the smallest of fine print 'This was sponsored by the Liberal Democrat party...' I found this approach in particular very interesting! Never before have I been so inundated with political post.

The funny thing is they already have my vote. Wonder if I could contact them and tell them to stop sending me so much fluff and save themselves a few £?

Has anyone else experienced a similar amount of additional political post? If so are the Lib Dems also the culprits?

[TobyD]

Yes, also had bags of paper through the door, but from all of them. You have to wonder slightly what the carbon footprint of an election is.

[abarro81]

We've had 2 Lab, 2 Green, 1 LD leaflets IIRC. I think the Green were the same one though - one addressed to me and one to my wife

[tomtom]

This probably wont work but if it does...

[Oldmanmatt]

Nothing.

Not one leaflet or letter.

Hardly any signs up around here. I recall seeing two LD. No Cons that I remember. Usually, in the past, it’s been purple and yellow 🤮 everywhere. Not seen any BP light blue.

No door knockers either.

Kevin Foster’s office, is across the road, not 50 meters, from where I’m typing this now (in the Bunker). Not seen anyone in there, or the lights on, since before the summer.

[tomtom]

I get handwritten notes from our local Lib Dem’s. Generally polite and without any cocks drawn on them either... disappointingly.

[Oldmanmatt]

Pinocchio.

I didn’t even google it.

If you’re following the news today, you’ll understand the above.

FFS, the Johnsons are arrogant wankers, aren’t they? Worse than me.

[BrutusTheBear]

The Lib Dem’s aren’t hand writing notes, that is one of the tactics, along with misleading bar charts and letters from Dr’s calling you ‘friend’... and today a letter from Mike Smithson ‘polling and elections expert’ with no branding on at all... the small print reads ‘promoted on behalf of the Liberal Democrats’.. (this is really not good form at all, regardless of the content of the letter which is bollocks btw).

Was thinking about this over the last few days.  There is a belief amongst some that if only Labour would reclaim the ‘middle ground’ and have a ‘centrist’ leader, they would smash the election.  Well we already have a party that claims to occupy the middle ground and a leader that claims to be ‘centrist’.  Centrists from both sides of the house have joined.  So if this is what the masses want, the way to win an election, then are we expecting a yellow landslide?  If not, why not because a lot of people seem to think this is the recipe for success, or does it need to be dressed in red to work?

[petejh]

Yeah for success it needs to be dressed in red; and have a smarmy, charismatic, self-loving, articulate, lying-bastard leader. See the theme here?

[Will Hunt]

If not, why not because a lot of people seem to think this is the recipe for success, or does it need to be dressed in red to work?

Because FPTP. Under our current system it needs to come from Labour.

At least on the 13th December I will have yet more proof that Labour cannot win a majority in a GE under Corbyn.

[BrutusTheBear]

Yeah for success it needs to be dressed in red; and have a smarmy, charismatic, self-loving, articulate, lying-bastard leader. See the theme here?

hmmmm sounds like that war criminal the media wheeled out the other day.

Why does it need to come from Labour when it’s already there (all shiny, Swinsony and yellow)?