David Milliband is in no way irrelevant, he has a far more influential and effectual position now, than Corbyn and McDonnell are very likely to ever have.
He’s director of the IRC so he gets to help people. Corbyn gets to talk about helping people. Not quite as impactful?
Quote from: Offwidth on November 22, 2019, 05:09:41 pmQuote from: galpinos on November 22, 2019, 11:04:57 amQuote from: joeisidle on November 22, 2019, 10:34:35 am I.e. it wasn't enough that he managed to mobilise the youth vote on its own,I know this gets trotted out a lot but there was no significant increase in youth turnout between 2015 and 2017 (it might have even decreased when you look at the error bands of the polling) and overall turnout increased by 2.5%.It wasn't the youth who enabled Corbyn to do better than expected.Really?https://www.ft.com/content/6734cdde-550b-11e7-9fed-c19e2700005fInteresting article that seems to explain what galpinos is referencing; https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42747342
Quote from: galpinos on November 22, 2019, 11:04:57 amQuote from: joeisidle on November 22, 2019, 10:34:35 am I.e. it wasn't enough that he managed to mobilise the youth vote on its own,I know this gets trotted out a lot but there was no significant increase in youth turnout between 2015 and 2017 (it might have even decreased when you look at the error bands of the polling) and overall turnout increased by 2.5%.It wasn't the youth who enabled Corbyn to do better than expected.Really?https://www.ft.com/content/6734cdde-550b-11e7-9fed-c19e2700005f
Quote from: joeisidle on November 22, 2019, 10:34:35 am I.e. it wasn't enough that he managed to mobilise the youth vote on its own,I know this gets trotted out a lot but there was no significant increase in youth turnout between 2015 and 2017 (it might have even decreased when you look at the error bands of the polling) and overall turnout increased by 2.5%.It wasn't the youth who enabled Corbyn to do better than expected.
I.e. it wasn't enough that he managed to mobilise the youth vote on its own,
Has the leaders' question time spelt the considerable demise of hope of not getting a conservative majority? If anyone much pays attention to these things, everyone seemed to agree that Jo Swinson got absolutely hammered, the only person who thought Corbyn did well was surprise surprise, Owen Jones:
Quote from: TobyD on November 23, 2019, 11:02:47 amHas the leaders' question time spelt the considerable demise of hope of not getting a conservative majority? If anyone much pays attention to these things, everyone seemed to agree that Jo Swinson got absolutely hammered, the only person who thought Corbyn did well was surprise surprise, Owen Jones: If you really think Johnson came out of that better than Corbyn then your prejudices were watching, and not your eyes. Corbyn was hammered at the start (particularly on anti-semitism) but was warmly applauded throughout and occasionally cheered. Johnson was harangued throughout and occasionally jeered.
Quote from: Stu Littlefair on November 23, 2019, 12:27:12 pmQuote from: TobyD on November 23, 2019, 11:02:47 amHas the leaders' question time spelt the considerable demise of hope of not getting a conservative majority? If anyone much pays attention to these things, everyone seemed to agree that Jo Swinson got absolutely hammered, the only person who thought Corbyn did well was surprise surprise, Owen Jones: If you really think Johnson came out of that better than Corbyn then your prejudices were watching, and not your eyes. Corbyn was hammered at the start (particularly on anti-semitism) but was warmly applauded throughout and occasionally cheered. Johnson was harangued throughout and occasionally jeered.Interesting, I didn't actually watch it, just listened to a few short bits and read various reports. Perhaps that reflects what I was reading, ( too much Times? )
All the talk about whether Jeremy Corbyn is being mis-represented by the 'mainstream' media doesn't change the fact that this a clearly a radical and left wing labour manifesto. Some on here probably see this as a good thing, from a personal political/economic viewpoint and a more general view of the electoral position I think it's very much a bad thing.
Quote from: IanP on November 22, 2019, 02:45:51 pmAll the talk about whether Jeremy Corbyn is being mis-represented by the 'mainstream' media doesn't change the fact that this a clearly a radical and left wing labour manifesto. Some on here probably see this as a good thing, from a personal political/economic viewpoint and a more general view of the electoral position I think it's very much a bad thing.It is absolutely a good thing for education, for the NHS, for social care, for disabled people, for women, for children, for those living in poverty. Admittedly it will be not so good for food banks or billionaires. Dislike the narrative that this is extreme or far left, maybe we have been thrown so deep into the austerity hole that it seems that way but if you compare the proposals to other countries it ain’t that radical.
Quote from: mrjonathanr on November 22, 2019, 08:23:44 pmHe’s director of the IRC so he gets to help people. Corbyn gets to talk about helping people. Not quite as impactful?Yes, thank you that is what I was referred to.On a world stage, Corbyn is totally irrelevant, Milliband is not, the IRC have been doing a lot in the developing human tragedy that is Syria. Arguably, that's also significantly more important than whatever the fuck it is Boris Johnson does with his time.
the anti Labour vibe is beyond a joke in a supposedly sensible newspaper. Today they had a piece with someone who owned 27 properties giving a sob story about potentially paying more tax!
I think that you might be in a tiny minority in not seeing Labours manifesto as extremely radical. I'm not saying that that's intrinsically a bad thing, by the way.
Latest Observer/oppinium poll has the torys on a 19 point lead .. 😱[/quotehttps://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/23/tories-renewed-poll-boost-brexit-party-candidates-pull-out-opinium-observerIn the article it says they have changed the mechanism to deal with Brexit not standing in tory seats. If you read the small print, the lead over Labour is the same (16% ) in Labour marfinals and they need close to that given the local issues and Brexit standing. As a progressive I'm more worried about Labour seats in London.Also in the Observer:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/23/poll-models-fail-spot-voting-variation-london-marginal-seats
Quote from: tomtom on November 23, 2019, 07:40:38 pmLatest Observer/oppinium poll has the torys on a 19 point lead .. 😱[/quotehttps://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/23/tories-renewed-poll-boost-brexit-party-candidates-pull-out-opinium-observerIn the article it says they have changed the mechanism to deal with Brexit not standing in tory seats. If you read the small print, the lead over Labour is the same (16% ) in Labour marfinals and they need close to that given the local issues and Brexit standing. As a progressive I'm more worried about Labour seats in London.Also in the Observer:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/23/poll-models-fail-spot-voting-variation-london-marginal-seats Polling is largely based on historical voting demographics, samples target particular demographics based on who voted in the last GE and are weighted accordingly. What they can’t predict is who will be motivated to get out and vote. We could also go into who owns the main polling companies that are published and quoted by MSM too and question their impartiality. In short don’t trust the polls too much.
I might be?! The point I was making is that it isn’t radical, it is being framed as such but if we actually compare the proposals to other countries rather than our shite state of affairs it all seems very reasonable/ sensible.
Does the manifesto make a Labour administration more or less likely?
What they can’t predict is who will be motivated to get out and vote. We could also go into who owns the main polling companies that are published and quoted by MSM too and question their impartiality. In short don’t trust the polls too much.
Quote from: BrutusTheBear on November 24, 2019, 09:14:07 amI might be?! The point I was making is that it isn’t radical, it is being framed as such but if we actually compare the proposals to other countries rather than our shite state of affairs it all seems very reasonable/ sensible.Does the manifesto make a Labour administration more or less likely?